Ray on kefiran
#1
Me: "Is lactic acid a long-term concern with kefiran?" "I'm a sjorgen's-like state because if digestive issues. Kefiran seems to help my rls, the effect is quite noticable, but i believe i feeel anxious or depressed after a week of use. My hypothesis is that though the lactobacilli may have a short-term antiinflammatory benefit, longer term lactic acid production may be detrimental. I heard you comment recently on the antiinflammatory action of lactobacilli, what do gou think of kefiran? Thx"

Ray: "Even dead lactobacilli have an antiinflammatory effect in the intestine, so it’s probably something in their cell wall coat, and kefiran might have a physical effect of that sort."
[color=#222222][size=medium]"I have no religion, no political affiliation: I believe in me, above everything else." -Chasing Good & Evil[/size][/color]
#2
(10-25-2016, 03:17 AM)ChasingGoodandEvil Wrote: Me: "Is lactic acid a long-term concern with kefiran?"

Ray: "Even dead lactobacilli have an antiinflammatory effect in the intestine, so it’s probably something in their cell wall coat, and kefiran might have a physical effect of that sort."

Was there more to your question? 

As your question appears, that's an interesting, somewhat indirect answer that doesn't actually talk about lactic acid. 

He may be referring to something like this:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1774064/

If there is an anti-inflammatory effect of kefiran, one might think it would be a good thing.
#3
(10-25-2016, 07:41 AM)VoS Wrote:
(10-25-2016, 03:17 AM)ChasingGoodandEvil Wrote: Me: "Is lactic acid a long-term concern with kefiran?"

Ray: "Even dead lactobacilli have an antiinflammatory effect in the intestine, so it’s probably something in their cell wall coat, and kefiran might have a physical effect of that sort."

Was there more to your question? 

As your question appears, that's an interesting, somewhat indirect answer that doesn't actually talk about lactic acid. 

He may be referring to something like this:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1774064/

If there is an anti-inflammatory effect of kefiran, one might think it would be a good thing.

I presumed that to mean lactic acid isn't a concern with kefiran. I know some people are confused about bis stance on probiotics, includuding myself.
[color=#222222][size=medium]"I have no religion, no political affiliation: I believe in me, above everything else." -Chasing Good & Evil[/size][/color]
#4
(10-25-2016, 09:44 AM)ChasingGoodandEvil Wrote:
(10-25-2016, 07:41 AM)VoS Wrote:
(10-25-2016, 03:17 AM)ChasingGoodandEvil Wrote: Me: "Is lactic acid a long-term concern with kefiran?"

Ray: "Even dead lactobacilli have an antiinflammatory effect in the intestine, so it’s probably something in their cell wall coat, and kefiran might have a physical effect of that sort."

Was there more to your question? 

As your question appears, that's an interesting, somewhat indirect answer that doesn't actually talk about lactic acid. 

He may be referring to something like this:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1774064/

If there is an anti-inflammatory effect of kefiran, one might think it would be a good thing.

I presumed that to mean lactic acid isn't a concern with kefiran. I know some people are confused about his stance on probiotics, including myself.
The issue with probiotics is that it is a commercial or advertising initiative. The word probiotics itself is contrived to induce a false impression by comparison to antibiotics. Probiotic supplements are typically overpriced and of poor quality, and unlikely to have any reliable effect. The theory that the genetic behavior of bacteria is determined or controlled by probiotics is sadistic science that Ray Peat writes about in his September 2016 newsletter. 

The idea of using beneficial lactobacilli has been practiced safely for thousands of years, and is quite inexpensive to implement in your own home with kefir grains. 


Peace.
#5
(10-25-2016, 04:25 PM)VoS Wrote:
(10-25-2016, 09:44 AM)ChasingGoodandEvil Wrote:
(10-25-2016, 07:41 AM)VoS Wrote:
(10-25-2016, 03:17 AM)ChasingGoodandEvil Wrote: Me: "Is lactic acid a long-term concern with kefiran?"

Ray: "Even dead lactobacilli have an antiinflammatory effect in the intestine, so it’s probably something in their cell wall coat, and kefiran might have a physical effect of that sort."

Was there more to your question? 

As your question appears, that's an interesting, somewhat indirect answer that doesn't actually talk about lactic acid. 

He may be referring to something like this:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1774064/

If there is an anti-inflammatory effect of kefiran, one might think it would be a good thing.

I presumed that to mean lactic acid isn't a concern with kefiran. I know some people are confused about his stance on probiotics, including myself.
The issue with probiotics is that it is a commercial or advertising initiative. The word probiotics itself is contrived to induce a false impression by comparison to antibiotics. Probiotic supplements are typically overpriced and of poor quality, and unlikely to have any reliable effect. The theory that the genetic behavior of bacteria is determined or controlled by probiotics is sadistic science that Ray Peat writes about in his September 2016 newsletter. 

The idea of using beneficial lactobacilli has been practiced safely for thousands of years, and is quite inexpensive to implement in your own home with kefir grains. 


Peace.


Thanks VOS, yes you seem to be correct a out that. It's very frustrating fo me to pin down what's wrong in my condition, i was unsure about the kefiran but another factor seems to be at play. I've made pr9gress with my condition, whatever it may be, i had pale yellow stoll and very inconsistent. Currently i uave episodes, characterizee by very loose stool, upper-left quadrant burning, bloating, and very apparent veins on the palms of my hand, the latter of which is the most alarming. Also scalp burning. I can see mo other reason for it but muscular, and it seems the muscular status is very insiduous and variable. Antibiotics, as well ass kefiran, help, but i suppose all i can do is employ means to control it while i replace the muscle i lost, that being lower abdominal and pelvoc muscle, as well as perianal. I do feel ive made progress but understanding what is occuring day-to-day is a daunting amd herulean mental exercise. I figure it must either be muscular, for i suffered much atrophy not being able to walk normally for a year, and therefore sittinf, however it may also be residual effects of weed, some unknown phenomenon on the motor complex or gastric acid production. Recently i have made progress with te supplementation lf betaine hcl 3/day. I have a hiatal hernia, so i suppose it could be claseified as muscular. I get a sort of temporary remission when i smoke weed, from digestive complaints, but it backss me up again after a gew days, though te cannabis makes my muscles quite relaxed and my stools very well-formed and satisfying. 
[color=#222222][size=medium]"I have no religion, no political affiliation: I believe in me, above everything else." -Chasing Good & Evil[/size][/color]
#6
I left out my entire email and have added it above for clarity. True, he doesn't address lactic acid, but because i feel like i introduced doubts about kefiram, i thought it would be just to include ray's response, and my own experience, regarding its benefits.
[color=#222222][size=medium]"I have no religion, no political affiliation: I believe in me, above everything else." -Chasing Good & Evil[/size][/color]
#7
Chasing good and evil was the topic of reading this morning when I visit Church this has such an amazing information on it. I was able to write an assignment on this so I choose thesis rush for this purpose I send them the topic and they make this happen to me.
  


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