Vegetable Oil is Not Modern, Extreme PUFA Restriction Unjustified
#1
Vegetable/Seed oils have been around for millennia, and part of the human diet and traditional recipes for a long time, as have seeds

Where do you get adequate vitamin E from the diet except through seeds, seed oils, or whole grains? I found out whole grain bread is the highest source in the diet, same goes for magnesium! And the only way to actually get enough unless you go to extremes with certain specific foods. Most traditional breads incorporate seeds into them as well! As long as its cooked and properly prepared, most of these foods seem tried and tested, and fine. The high insoluble fibre has a low fermentation potential so actually works better potentially than carrot fibre for whatever purpose, the fibre of which comprises of pectin, highly fermentable, exactly the stuff OJ drinking intends to avoid! Not enough careful looking into the characteristics of different fibres is incorperated into Ray's conclusions about them. 

Anyways I'm on a tangent, so much has been learnt in my confirming and disconfirming of Peat ideas against others and experience, it wants out. But the question that brought me here today is that of oils and seeds, I see them in so many age old traditional recipes, which I'm finding funnily enough to work far better as a diet than most things I've tried. Whole grain bread with many grains and seeds "country bread" instead of white bread, it tastes better, digests better. If it digests poorer you may just need to adapt to it slowly, as with most fibres.

Sorry long winded...

Agrument I want to put forward:

Seed oils and PUFA can't be so fully to blame for any recent issues if they were ubiquitously in the diet for millenia, certainly in the centuries before the current. Even if it is to blame for recent decades issues because there is more of it in the diet, the justification for its extreme elimination is gone.
#2
Additionally, if seed oils are made traditionally, they are less processed and often contain ample vitamin E. I got banned from Ray Peat Forum amidst responding to Haidut's thread with my own conclusion's from the paper he posted on vitamin E demands increasing with pufa intake, because I pointed out that the best sources named in that very paper (behind a paywall so he was the only one selectively relaying and interpreting it until I chimed in with access to it) were seeds and oils, and based on the papers argument of the need to increasing vitamin E intake to neutralize pufa intake, the high amounts in those sources warranted actually taking them to neutralize extra pufa elsewhere in the diet! My post was erased along with a few others at that time and I was banned. But that is besides the point, the intent here is to add to my argument pro seeds and oils.
#3
I agree. Seeds are too time-proven to be ignored completely and I would argue that a person eating a seafood heavy diet will at times be inexplicably drawn to nuts/seeds as a complement to seafood nutrients.

In such an instance, if the nuts/seeds are eaten past where the body was pulled towards them, then they start becoming a negative bodily influence.
#4
(01-07-2018, 04:16 AM)Jora Wrote: Additionally, if seed oils are made traditionally, they are less processed and often contain ample vitamin E. I got banned from Ray Peat Forum amidst responding to Haidut's thread with my own conclusion's from the paper he posted on vitamin E demands increasing with pufa intake, because I pointed out that the best sources named in that very paper (behind a paywall so he was the only one selectively relaying and interpreting it until I chimed in with access to it) were seeds and oils, and based on the papers argument of the need to increasing vitamin E intake to neutralize pufa intake, the high amounts in those sources warranted actually taking them to neutralize extra pufa elsewhere in the diet! My post was erased along with a few others at that time and I was banned. But that is besides the point, the intent here is to add to my argument pro seeds and oils.

http://raypeatforums.org/showthread.php?tid=111
#5
You guys are nuts!

I've been to everywhere in the world and there is no doubt in my mind that the prevalence on vegetable oils affect the populace (by amplifying stress reactions), not saying that there are no people that can create an equilibrium with it.

I think it's the food of the idiots because it brings immediate benefits on short term by causing cells to lose sensitivity and slow down in a sense, causing a drop in inflammation and bringing all "health" markers to better. Usually you are slimmer also. But it's the long term "tail" effects of the oxidative damage and synergization with estrogen, iron, radiation and alcohol that fuck you up.

Whether it's ancient or not is not relevant to anything.
#6
There is a difference between eating the seeds and large amounts of the oil itself... which is what is standard in the American diet, not to mention most PUFA seed oils are rancid, for example, cold pressed canola oil is a joke as canola oil cannot be pressed without the use of hexane and heat, case closed. Soy is a disgusting plant all by itself, yuck, GMO, lectins, phytic acid, DNA damaging and so on.

Also, PUFA oils started becoming popular in the late 50s in N/A with the advent of canola oil in Canada in the 70s. Before butter/lard/tallow were used which is higher in monounsaturated fat/omega 3 plant-based (well-treated animals, feed wise and ethically). Now most animals feed is soy or corn etc.. which results in PUFA fat.
  


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