"On Ray Peat and Danny Roddy"
#11
(04-12-2018, 12:38 PM)SOMO Wrote: (DMSO is a local skin irritant, Haidut states in one of his DR podcasts. Skin irritation is temporary, so this isn't a huge concern.)

Somo, it is true that Haidut lied to his customers/potential customers when claiming that skin irritation is the only side effect from DMSO. A google search yields the real side effect profile for DMSO:

"Some side effects of taking DMSO include skin reactions, dry skin, headache, dizziness, drowsiness, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, constipation, breathing problems, vision problems, blood problems, and allergic reactions. DMSO also causes a garlic-like taste, and breath and body odor." (https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingred...lsulfoxide)

Further, DMSO has been studied in animals where it caused neurotoxicity, eye damage, and other side effects. In vitro, DMSO causes apoptosis in virtually every type of cell I think I've ever seen it tested on. Even Haidut posted a study on raypeatforum.com illustrating that DMSO lowers body temperature. Ray Peat cited the numerous metabolic lowering properties of DMSO, when warning against its usage. DMSO inhibits the bodies natural formation of steroids at least locally where it is applied. The problem with DMSO is that it easily penetrates the skin and has a very long half life. Therefore with consistent usage, as in a supplement, it is likely to exert its toxic effects systemically. Here are some threads that explore the dangers of DMSO in more detail:

http://www.raypeatforums.org/showthread.php?tid=342

http://www.raypeatforums.org/showthread.php?tid=343
"The true method of knowledge is experiment." -William Blake
#12
@Zozo I made a post questioning the validity of your claims but upon reflection I don’t feel it’s right to question someone’s experience or question someone’s sanity especially if I don’t know more details about the event or know them personally and so I deleted it. If this stuff did happen it’s really messed up and I’m sorry you had to go through it.
#13
(04-12-2018, 07:07 PM)Sea Wrote:
(04-12-2018, 12:38 PM)SOMO Wrote: (DMSO is a local skin irritant, Haidut states in one of his DR podcasts. Skin irritation is temporary, so this isn't a huge concern.)

Somo, it is true that Haidut lied to his customers/potential customers when claiming that skin irritation is the only side effect from DMSO. A google search yields the real side effect profile for DMSO:

"Some side effects of taking DMSO include skin reactions, dry skin, headache, dizziness, drowsiness, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, constipation, breathing problems, vision problems, blood problems, and allergic reactions. DMSO also causes a garlic-like taste, and breath and body odor." (https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingred...lsulfoxide)

Further, DMSO has been studied in animals where it caused neurotoxicity, eye damage (I don't know why someone would be putting DMSO in their eye, or are you saying that topical skin application of DMSO leads to eye damage?) , and other side effects. In vitro, DMSO causes apoptosis in virtually every type of cell I think I've ever seen it tested on. Even Haidut posted a study on raypeatforum.com illustrating that DMSO lowers body temperature. Ray Peat cited the numerous metabolic lowering properties of DMSO, when warning against its usage. DMSO inhibits the bodies natural formation of steroids at least locally where it is applied. The problem with DMSO is that it easily penetrates the skin and has a very long half life. Therefore with consistent usage, as in a supplement, it is likely to exert its toxic effects systemically. Here are some threads that explore the dangers of DMSO in more detail:

http://www.raypeatforums.org/showthread.php?tid=342

http://www.raypeatforums.org/showthread.php?tid=343

1. I'm extremely sensitive to chemicals, as in synthetic chemicals in soaps, shampoos, etc. 
Skin gets red and blotchy if I use soap or shampoo with SLS in it. Scalp burns with SLS. 
Skin got itchy but not red or blotchy from DMSO. 

2. I've also used DMSO infrequently over the years, and I have never noticed any of the side-effects you mentioned. 
I've also never tasted the "garlic" or sulfur taste on the tongue even using 99% DMSO (topically).

3. Side-Effect Probability: Sick people can have no side-effects and healthy people can have side-effects. What matters is the probability of experiencing those side-effects. Supposedly Finasteride/Propecia/Anti-DHT hairloss drug has a probability of 1-5% for Erectile Dysfunction after using the medication. 

If 100 people use Finasteride and only 5 get Erectile Dysfunction, there could be 95 people benefiting from the drug. 


If a chemical helps people, why not use it? Especially if the risk of side effects is (x<1%).


4. I agree with you that side-effects need to be taken into consideration before taking any substance, but DMSO is benign.  I'm assuming you're equally disturbed by Yohimbe, an extremely unsafe stimulant. I've used Yohimbe and almost had to call an ambulance my heart was racing so fast. And yet there are people who use Yohimbe recreationally or for weight loss or for anti-fatigue purposes. 

5. DMSO treats at least one physical medical condition: Interstitial Cystitis (bladder)
I even saw pro-DMSO posters in my urologists office and this urologist is as mainstream as you can get.
https://www.ichelp.org/diagnosis-treatme...ions/dmso/

Overall, I disagree with you that DMSO is unsafe for the majority of people.
#14
Well, that all surely does sound rather strange and peculiar. As a former Peatarian member I can only say that Peatarian is greatly missed, as I feel it played a key role in what Ray Peat stands for. It was a platform of grand value with many very interesting members and ideas. I don't feel the need to comment on RPF.com and why even though it grew so big doesn't render Peatarian redundant as there's enough to find on these forums already.

Just throwing around ideas here, but maybe a merger of some sort of this forum and Peatarian could work. I think the old format (the Peatarian one) was preferred by many and seeing that this place is not very big (no offense intended, charlientine put down your hammer.., oh wait), it's not really useful to have so many forums, subforums and subforums of subforums, etc. I feel like they just contribute to even less activity.
#15
(04-21-2018, 12:19 AM)Kiwifruit Wrote: Well, that all surely does sound rather strange and peculiar. As a former Peatarian member I can only say that Peatarian is greatly missed, as I feel it played a key role in what Ray Peat stands for. It was a platform of grand value with many very interesting members and ideas. I don't feel the need to comment on RPF.com and why even though it grew so big doesn't render Peatarian redundant as there's enough to find on these forums already.

Just throwing around ideas here, but maybe a merger of some sort of this forum and Peatarian could work. I think the old format (the Peatarian one) was preferred by many and seeing that this place is not very big (no offense intended, charlientine put down your hammer.., oh wait), it's not really useful to have so many forums, subforums and subforums of subforums, etc. I feel like they just contribute to even less activity.

Honestly, I have mixed feelings about forum activity. I am planning to install a notification plugin shortly which many people have requested and should allow for more activity as people will be notified in response to @ and quotes. However, I think a lot of forums suffer from what essentially amounts to noise; people just posting for the sake of posting to agree with or fit in with a group, as opposed to people posting because they actually have something to contribute to a forum. As "tfcjesse" from hackstasis.com stated:

"Certain RP forum characters are more concerned with their egos, forum status, and maintaining the equilibrium that is Haidut's sales and Ray Peat's cuneiform tablet writings than a useful and progress-making groupthink including Gbol." (https://hackstasis.com/threads/all-back-...-forum.22/)

I think that your suggestion to reduce the amount of forum categories is good, and I will probably make some changes there shortly.
"The true method of knowledge is experiment." -William Blake
#16
Personally, I haven't seen Haidut shy away from a single debate regarding DMSO, but I also don't control the forum, so I can't speak with certainty about what's going on behind the scenes.

What I can say is that the number of trolls is increasing quickly, and most healthy debate is being infected by these members who are just looking to create chaos.

Because of this I find myself spending less time reading the forum, and more time reading Peat's work directly.

I don't see a practical solution to this except for everyone to just "ignore" those members causing trouble, but that's just not happening at the moment.
#17
Kyle is certainly a mouthbreather ... people like him are the problem. Would be great if charlie would ban that asshole.
[color=#222222][size=medium]"I have no religion, no political affiliation: I believe in me, above everything else." -Chasing Good & Evil[/size][/color]
#18
Quote:1. I'm extremely sensitive to chemicals, as in synthetic chemicals in soaps, shampoos, etc. 
Skin gets red and blotchy if I use soap or shampoo with SLS in it. Scalp burns with SLS. 
Skin got itchy but not red or blotchy from DMSO. 

2. I've also used DMSO infrequently over the years, and I have never noticed any of the side-effects you mentioned. 
I've also never tasted the "garlic" or sulfur taste on the tongue even using 99% DMSO (topically).

3. Side-Effect Probability: Sick people can have no side-effects and healthy people can have side-effects. What matters is the probability of experiencing those side-effects. Supposedly Finasteride/Propecia/Anti-DHT hairloss drug has a probability of 1-5% for Erectile Dysfunction after using the medication. 

If 100 people use Finasteride and only 5 get Erectile Dysfunction, there could be 95 people benefiting from the drug. 


If a chemical helps people, why not use it? Especially if the risk of side effects is (x<1%).


4. I agree with you that side-effects need to be taken into consideration before taking any substance, but DMSO is benign.  I'm assuming you're equally disturbed by Yohimbe, an extremely unsafe stimulant. I've used Yohimbe and almost had to call an ambulance my heart was racing so fast. And yet there are people who use Yohimbe recreationally or for weight loss or for anti-fatigue purposes. 

5. DMSO treats at least one physical medical condition: Interstitial Cystitis (bladder)
I even saw pro-DMSO posters in my urologists office and this urologist is as mainstream as you can get.
https://www.ichelp.org/diagnosis-treatme...ions/dmso/

Overall, I disagree with you that DMSO is unsafe for the majority of people.

Somo, I think with supplements, or drugs it is important to understand what the molecule is doing, instead of choosing to ingest something based on the manufactures alleged probability of side effects. Haidut is a good example here, as he has consistently lied to his potential customers not only about the side effect profile of DMSO, but by denying that side effects which had been reported to him by myself, had ever been reported by his customers.

Ray Peat has explained that DMSO exerts negative metabolic effects and therefore should not be used for any prolonged duration. In the context of the Ray Peat community, people are attempting to increase their metabolic rates. Therefore, when a compound is found to lower body temperature, raise nitric oxide and histamine, and has the end result of overexciting cells leading to their premature deaths; this is not a compound that I think should be considered helpful or a good idea to experiment with.

You are correct in your assessment that I would not recommend "Yohimbe". I agree with Ray Peat's general stance regarding supplements which I think is well illustrated here:

"Because the quality of commercial nutritional supplements is dangerously low, the only supplement I generally advocate is vitamin E, and that should be used sparingly. Occasionally, I will suggest limited use of other supplements, but it is far safer in general to use real foods, and to exclude foods which are poor in nutrients. Magnesium is typically deficient in hypothyroidism, and the safest way to get it is by using orange juice and meats, and by using epsom salts baths;" (http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/ray-peat.htm)

The FDA may claim that DMSO treats Interstitial Cystitis, but in the Ray Peat community people generally don't subscribe to the pharmaceutical industry's theory of treating each symptom with a different drug or surgical intervention. Certainly, I subscribe to the idea that it is the metabolic rate which determines how fast we heal, and what types of diseases or aging we are susceptible to, and that is a mistake to treat specific problems like Interstitial Cystitis, instead of addressing the overall metabolic rate. Even Haidut has previously debunked the FDA here:

"The FDA has maintained for years that glyphosate is safe but has refused to test food samples for its presence. When public pressure for testing intensified the FDA finally started some tests in 2017 but the process was immediately tested by evidence that a top EPA official involved in the testing was openly collaborating with Monsanto and trying to derail the tests or skew their results. Well, it appears that the FDA is always part of the scam. As the article below shows, while the tests on "official food samples" performed by the FDA did not find any glyphosate, FDA's own scientists conducted their own tests on their own food they commonly eat and found glyphosate levels exceeding multiple times the allowed limits in every food they tested. Keep in mind that even the allowed limits are known to cause cancer in lab animals, but at the levels found in common foods as reported by these scientists the glyphosate's effects are probably going to manifest in a matter of months instead of years." (https://raypeatforum.com/community/threa...ted.23875/)
"The true method of knowledge is experiment." -William Blake
#19
(04-18-2018, 06:35 PM)Zozo Wrote: Yeah, the insults are very personal and thus very hard to explain to others, so it's to be expected that my sanity is questioned. Hacking someone in particular doesn't seem difficult (phishing, tampering with kernel, ...). Identifying a hacker like that is pretty much impossible. I'd definitely consider myself paranoid and delusional if that monster pic of Pranarupa was my only lead. The pictures were analogous in expression, hair, ... to pictures taken of me at the same time, which seemed real weird. It's part of a bigger whole.

I can definitely verify some of what Zozo has been saying in this thread. I have witnessed Dan Wich spreading the rumor that Zozo had a mental disorder on Facebook. Dan Wich announced virtually every new Idealabs(Haidut) supplement in Ray Peat Facebook groups as they were released, so he does seem to be connected to this group which Zozo alleges has been harassing him.
"The true method of knowledge is experiment." -William Blake
#20
@Zozo, it was in the "Ray Peat Fans" group. I started this thread when someone linked to your statement on peatarian.com in that group. I remember Brad Abrahams posted at the time, and denied any knowledge of anything in your original statement. At the time, me and several others criticized the actions of those people rushing to label you with a mental disorder, after which Dan Wich appeared remorseful and stated that he would probably delete his posts. I've searched again, and I'm fairly certain that the thread has since been deleted.
"The true method of knowledge is experiment." -William Blake
  


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