Butter or coconut oil
#1
So here I am with coconut oil (88 g saturated fats for each 100 g) and about the same for ratio bor butter. IS there anything that makes coconut oil superior? It does seem to be more thermogenic (need to experiment more) however I'm wondering if something like 3 table spoons daily is not having an anti dht effect (infamous lauric acid). What has been your experience with both and why do you choose one over the other?
#2
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#3
So if one has slow metabolism and can't deal with saturated fats what would you recommend? I doubt fat-free is healthy, would things like olive oil be a better choice?
Generally speaking I feel like the body, given adequate energy, nutrients, sleep and movement, gets better at dealing with foods, different macros , as long as the diet is not changed daily the body has an ability to adapt, if you remove saturated fats completely from the diet then how is it going to get better at using them?
An example: Since eating much more glucose and less fat, eating more fat seems to make me fatter than before.

In my experience coconut oil is more thermogenic and leads to less of a drop in energy after high glucose meals , as always these observations are a work in progress.
#4
(05-28-2017, 08:31 AM)Wagner83 Wrote: So if one has slow metabolism and can't deal with saturated fats what would you recommend? I doubt fat-free is healthy, would things like olive oil be a better choice?
Generally speaking I feel like the body, given adequate energy, nutrients, sleep and movement, gets better at dealing with foods, different macros , as long as the diet is not changed daily the body has an ability to adapt, if you remove saturated fats completely from the diet then how is it going to get better at using them?
An example: Since eating much more glucose and less fat, eating more fat seems to make me fatter than before.

In my experience coconut oil is more thermogenic and leads to less of a drop in energy after high glucose meals , as always these observations are a work in progress.

Nothing wrong with butter or coconut oil . I noticed that some people experience acne with milk fat or full fat dairy . Its probably reaction to trace hormones in them. Of course in liquid portion of milk there are even more trace hormones bound to milk proteins.  In butter where majority of progesterone is, is probably protective. And some people have those reaction that I described to coconut oil. Yes coconut oil is going to be oxidized faster.  But generaly eating lots of them esspecially in combination with high sugar intake when metabolism and temperature is very low is not a best approach. It along with congested liver is probably a primary reason why there are people that gain weight very fast on this diet.

And about hydrogenated oil I think they use metal catalysts ( nickel i think) . I think ordinary refined CO is just fine or even ex.virgin if you do not have allergy to it. I think that fresh pressed Olive oil is fine. Just do not use it for frying and be sure that it is fresh  and not fake.
#5
(05-28-2017, 09:30 AM)Spiral Wrote: Nothing wrong with butter or coconut oil . I noticed that some people experience acne with milk fat or full fat dairy . Its probably reaction to trace hormones in them. Of course in liquid portion of milk there are even more trace hormones bound to milk proteins.  In butter where majority of progesterone is, is probably protective. And some people have those reaction that I described to coconut oil. Yes coconut oil is going to be oxidized faster.  But generaly eating lots of them esspecially in combination with high sugar intake when metabolism and temperature is very low is not a best approach. It along with congested liver is probably a primary reason why there are people that gain weight very fast on this diet.

And about hydrogenated oil I think they use metal catalysts ( nickel i think) . I think ordinary refined CO is just fine or even ex.virgin if you do not have allergy to it. I think that fresh pressed Olive oil is fine. Just do not use it for frying and be sure that it is fresh  and not fake.

Interesting thoughts, I saw someone else mentin higher progesterone in butter, that should be quite protective against estrogens. I discussed with haidut as milk (even skimmed) and dairy in general give me acne and backne in particular . He said he thinks milk proteins and other stuff in it raise DHEA in some men which leads to acne, eating coconut oil and the famous white button mushrooms could mitigate some of those effects (harmful estrogenic metabolites of dhea).
A particular goat milk had me feel great (deeper voice, female seemed to notice changes, I felt nice) but still it gave me backne, an other thing I wonder about and which I mentioned on an other thread is whether or not dairy can trigger mole growth.
#6
(05-28-2017, 09:42 AM)Wagner83 Wrote:
(05-28-2017, 09:30 AM)Spiral Wrote: Nothing wrong with butter or coconut oil . I noticed that some people experience acne with milk fat or full fat dairy . Its probably reaction to trace hormones in them. Of course in liquid portion of milk there are even more trace hormones bound to milk proteins.  In butter where majority of progesterone is, is probably protective. And some people have those reaction that I described to coconut oil. Yes coconut oil is going to be oxidized faster.  But generaly eating lots of them esspecially in combination with high sugar intake when metabolism and temperature is very low is not a best approach. It along with congested liver is probably a primary reason why there are people that gain weight very fast on this diet.

And about hydrogenated oil I think they use metal catalysts ( nickel i think) . I think ordinary refined CO is just fine or even ex.virgin if you do not have allergy to it. I think that fresh pressed Olive oil is fine. Just do not use it for frying and be sure that it is fresh  and not fake.

Interesting thoughts, I saw someone else mentin higher progesterone in butter, that should be quite protective against estrogens. I discussed with haidut as milk (even skimmed) and dairy in general give me acne and backne in particular . He said he thinks milk proteins and other stuff in it raise DHEA in some men which leads to acne, eating coconut oil and the famous white button mushrooms could mitigate some of those effects (harmful estrogenic metabolites of dhea).
A particular goat milk had me feel great (deeper voice, female seemed to notice changes, I felt nice) but still it gave me backne, an other thing I wonder about and which I mentioned on an other thread is whether or not dairy can trigger mole growth.

Did you try non-homogenized milk? Yogurt or Kefir? Just curious to know if it also gives you acne.

You can cleanse the liver with citrus and olive oil, I wonder if a low dose of freshly pressed citrus and uncooked olive oil with the meal would have the same effect over a longer period of time. I am experimenting that right now.
#7
(05-28-2017, 09:42 AM)Wagner83 Wrote:
(05-28-2017, 09:30 AM)Spiral Wrote: Nothing wrong with butter or coconut oil . I noticed that some people experience acne with milk fat or full fat dairy . Its probably reaction to trace hormones in them. Of course in liquid portion of milk there are even more trace hormones bound to milk proteins.  In butter where majority of progesterone is, is probably protective. And some people have those reaction that I described to coconut oil. Yes coconut oil is going to be oxidized faster.  But generaly eating lots of them esspecially in combination with high sugar intake when metabolism and temperature is very low is not a best approach. It along with congested liver is probably a primary reason why there are people that gain weight very fast on this diet.

And about hydrogenated oil I think they use metal catalysts ( nickel i think) . I think ordinary refined CO is just fine or even ex.virgin if you do not have allergy to it. I think that fresh pressed Olive oil is fine. Just do not use it for frying and be sure that it is fresh  and not fake.

Interesting thoughts, I saw someone else mentin higher progesterone in butter, that should be quite protective against estrogens. I discussed with haidut as milk (even skimmed) and dairy in general give me acne and backne in particular . He said he thinks milk proteins and other stuff in it raise DHEA in some men which leads to acne, eating coconut oil and the famous white button mushrooms could mitigate some of those effects (harmful estrogenic metabolites of dhea).
A particular goat milk had me feel great (deeper voice, female seemed to notice changes, I felt nice) but still it gave me backne, an other thing I wonder about and which I mentioned on an other thread is whether or not dairy can trigger mole growth.
Not sure about estrogenic metabolites from dhea but Acne from milk can be caused by high tryptophan content besides reaction to trace hormones or added vitamins .

"Milk is a rich natural source of tryptophan. Since tryptophan promotes formation of serotonin which stimulates release of prolactin, and prolactin activates the formation of sebum (oil) by the skin, large amounts of milk could promote a tendency toward acne, when there is a deficiency of b6, thyroid, progesterone, etc." RP NW

I am not sure that just correcting the thyroid will shift all tryptophan away from serotonin. It seems that casein and Ca also helps with that but I am not sure where is limit to that .Amount of tryptophan in 2-4 quarts is 4-5 x daily needs for adults. I was wondering why Peat frequently mentions antiserotonin drugs and regularly take cyprophetadine and says that it is safe up to 1 mg. Is it because of unavoidable serotonin from drinking Quarts of milk? How much milk you consummed when exepriencing acne?
#8
(05-28-2017, 10:22 AM)nikotrope Wrote: Did you try non-homogenized milk? Yogurt or Kefir? Just curious to know if it also gives you acne.

You can cleanse the liver with citrus and olive oil, I wonder if a low dose of freshly pressed citrus and uncooked olive oil with the meal would have the same effect over a longer period of time. I am experimenting that right now.

Only non-homogenized goat milk a few times but it was an awful experience in all ways. Cheese also gives me issues with acne.

See my experience with apple juice and possibly bile in thread on "sinusitis and wheat". Keep us updated on your experiment!
#9
(05-28-2017, 04:02 PM)Spiral Wrote: Not sure about estrogenic metabolites from dhea but Acne from milk can be caused by high tryptophan content besides reaction to trace hormones or added vitamins .

"Milk is a rich natural source of tryptophan. Since tryptophan promotes formation of serotonin which stimulates release of prolactin, and prolactin activates the formation of sebum (oil) by the skin, large amounts of milk could promote a tendency toward acne, when there is a deficiency of b6, thyroid, progesterone, etc." RP NW

I am not sure that just correcting the thyroid will shift all tryptophan away from serotonin. It seems that casein and Ca also helps with that but I am not sure where is limit to that .Amount of tryptophan in 2-4 quarts is 4-5 x daily needs for adults. I was wondering why Peat frequently mentions antiserotonin drugs and regularly take cyprophetadine and says that it is safe up to 1 mg. Is it because of unavoidable serotonin from drinking Quarts of milk? How much milk you consummed when exepriencing acne?

No added vitamins in mine. Muscle meat does not give me acne , of course I consume less. I do notice the increase in sebum production with milk.

An increase in vitamin A needs was mentioned a few times and some people seem to solve their issues with it. I did not try that. There should be more progesterone than estrogens in milk according to Ray, so trace hormones should be fine? I only used organic/grass fed milk so not sure if they'd give heaps of estrogens to those cows.

Any will give me awful acne in the back, but I have not experimented with small amounts once it's cleared up. As I said cheese on its own gives me the same issue or at least keeps it going.
#10
(05-29-2017, 06:45 AM)Wagner83 Wrote:
(05-28-2017, 04:02 PM)Spiral Wrote: Not sure about estrogenic metabolites from dhea but Acne from milk can be caused by high tryptophan content besides reaction to trace hormones or added vitamins .

"Milk is a rich natural source of tryptophan. Since tryptophan promotes formation of serotonin which stimulates release of prolactin, and prolactin activates the formation of sebum (oil) by the skin, large amounts of milk could promote a tendency toward acne, when there is a deficiency of b6, thyroid, progesterone, etc." RP NW

I am not sure that just correcting the thyroid will shift all tryptophan away from serotonin. It seems that casein and Ca also helps with that but I am not sure where is limit to that .Amount of tryptophan in 2-4 quarts is 4-5 x daily needs for adults. I was wondering why Peat frequently mentions antiserotonin drugs and regularly take cyprophetadine and says that it is safe up to 1 mg. Is it because of unavoidable serotonin from drinking Quarts of milk? How much milk you consummed when exepriencing acne?

No added vitamins in mine. Muscle meat does not give me acne , of course I consume less. I do notice the increase in sebum production with milk.

An increase in vitamin A needs was mentioned a few times and some people seem to solve their issues with it. I did not try that. There should be more progesterone than estrogens in milk according to Ray, so trace hormones should be fine? I only used organic/grass fed milk so not sure if they'd give heaps of estrogens to those cows.

Any will give me awful acne in the back, but I have not experimented with small amounts once it's cleared up. As I said cheese on its own gives me the same issue or at least keeps it going.
Increase in vitamin A needs from increased metabolism right? That does not make sense to me. How it can be that improving metabolism can cause acne? Vit A is unsaturated in nature so it might have something to do with skin function and why it "solves" the issue for some people. Then I guess B vitamins would also help greatly with skin problems and acne. But again that does not sound logical that improved metabolism will be a reson for impaired function of the skin. Real Metabolism improvement ocurrs when resources are sufficient and abundant so everything will be better functioning right?  I think acne are a result of hormonal or nutrient imbalances  esspecially cystic or large acne. Reaction to trace hormones in milk may produce some metabolites that are responsible for that that is why i mentioned that and its not just about progesterone and estrogens ratio in dairy.but high tryptophan content of  milk is also a big factor here. I think Mg can help with that.This paper is a good review of complete hormone content of milk.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4524299/
  


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