Sinusitis, breathing and wheat + dairy
#11
(05-22-2017, 03:36 PM)Jennifer Wrote: Huh, interesting. Thanks for sharing. Smile

Jasmine is my favorite variety but unlike the Thai glutinous rice, Jasmine gave me acid reflux even when cooking it down to porridge consistency.

Sorry, just to make sure I'm understanding correctly, you were consuming both juice and milk during the time the worrying issues developed and when you cut out both (at the same time?) the issues went away? If so, could you have been reacting poorly to one and not the other or have you tested out both at separate times? 

In my case, the food coma and other overgrowth symptoms were due to my weak adrenals leaving me unable to metabolize complex carbs well and the high levels of toxic mold present in my body. I'm finally over a stressful period in my life so to avoid the adrenaline highs and subsequent crashes, I'm sticking to just gentle forms of exercise until my glands have a chance to strengthen. Right now it's ballet and flexibility routines. I also thought about indoor rock climbing since my favorite thing during hikes were rock scrambles, but anyway...

The main overgrowth symptoms I get are facial rashing with tiny pustules, severe depression, brain fog, blurry vision, itchy skin/scalp, digestive disturbances - sloshing gut, bloating, constipation and diarrhea, poor sleep, restless legs, slight odor in my underarms and a white coated tongue. All of these disappear if I stick to easily digestible carbs (fruit).

Fructose/sucrose in liquid form, not sure about solid form but this an other thing I've been curious about, does the form in which sugar comes play a part? I still get some issues if I take too much but not to the extent I did back in that time. I had a frightening pain that was building from the chest/back area, it radiated in the right arm and to the top of the head too. It felt like it could have been the gallbladder, the liver or pancreas, a forum member had reported pancreatitis from a fruitarian diet, an other member had issues similar to mine. It was getting worse and worse, bile flow seemed impaired too (pale stools), taurine (redbull helped), as well as stopping juices and going back to starch.

I'm not a fan of most milk, I think it gives me mucus, worsen allergies and more importantly very bad backne , I'm even wondering if it's not mole-o-genic. That being said for the first two weeks I was using jersey cow milk and was doing ok.

Damn these are harsh symptoms!
#12
Wagner83 Wrote:Fructose/sucrose in liquid form, not sure about solid form but this an other thing I've been curious about, does the form in which sugar comes play a part?

I do believe so. I'd say it's dependent on many factors. What is the source of the liquid form? Is it fresh pressed juice versus commercial juice that may contain hidden enzymes and flavor packs, or made from unripe and/or spoiled fruit? Is it soda that contains things like phosphoric acid and sugar stripped of most of its potassium? Potassium is said to be essential for metabolizing sugar properly.

What is the amount consumed in a sitting? It's much easier to ingest a lot of sugar quickly from juice compared to the equivalent amount in whole fruit. If a person has any weak organs/glands like the pancreas, adrenals, liver etc., the quick influx of sugar could pose problems due to an inability to metabolize it fast enough. I also recall Ray mentioning how liquid, in general, has the potential to irritate the intestines, but I'll have to look for the exact quote.

Then there's the pleasure factor. Does a person actually enjoy drinking their calories or eating them? This isn't meant as a judgement (I've done it, too), but I see many people in Peat and raw vegan land consuming nothing but liquids who hate it and don't feel any better for it, but continue to do so thinking they have to to heal. It's one thing if we're actually seeing benefits from it, but it's a whole other thing if we're not, yet continue to do so out of a fear of not healing. I believe the first is motivating and the second is disempowering, and that this makes a difference with how we process our food.

Wagner83 Wrote:I still get some issues if I take too much but not to the extent I did back in that time. I had a frightening pain that was building from the chest/back area, it radiated in the right arm and to the top of the head too. It felt like it could have been the gallbladder, the liver or pancreas, a forum member had reported pancreatitis from a fruitarian diet, an other member had issues similar to mine. It was getting worse and worse, bile flow seemed impaired too (pale stools), taurine (redbull helped), as well as stopping juices and going back to starch.

Yeah, that does sound scary! I've dealt with liver/gallbladder pains, but none that radiated in my arm and up to my head. I get pale stools and liver/gallbladder pains when consuming too much fat, but had it mostly during the time I consumed dairy and was on heavy doses of minocycline. The pains usually accompany indigestion - this heaviness in the middle of my chest and a constant feeling like the need to burp that never materializes. My mum, aunt, uncle and cousin had similar symptoms before their gallbladders were removed.

I meant to ask you before, what does mole-o-genic mean? Google didn't know either.  Smile
"One regret, my dear world, that I am determined not to have when I am lying on my deathbed is that I did not kiss you enough." ~ Hafiz
#13
(05-23-2017, 07:43 PM)Jennifer Wrote: I do believe so. I'd say it's dependent on many factors. What is the source of the liquid form? Is it fresh pressed juice versus commercial juice that may contain hidden enzymes and flavor packs, or made from unripe and/or spoiled fruit? Is it soda that contains things like phosphoric acid and sugar stripped of most of its potassium? Potassium is said to be essential for metabolizing sugar properly.

What is the amount consumed in a sitting? It's much easier to ingest a lot of sugar quickly from juice compared to the equivalent amount in whole fruit. If a person has any weak organs/glands like the pancreas, adrenals, liver etc., the quick influx of sugar could pose problems due to an inability to metabolize it fast enough. I also recall Ray mentioning how liquid, in general, has the potential to irritate the intestines, but I'll have to look for the exact quote.

Then there's the pleasure factor. Does a person actually enjoy drinking their calories or eating them? This isn't meant as a judgement (I've done it, too), but I see many people in Peat and raw vegan land consuming nothing but liquids who hate it and don't feel any better for it, but continue to do so thinking they have to to heal. It's one thing if we're actually seeing benefits from it, but it's a whole other thing if we're not, yet continue to do so out of a fear of not healing. I believe the first is motivating and the second is disempowering, and that this makes a difference with how we process our food. d), as well as stopping juices and going back to starch.



I was drinking quality orange juice and milk when I had the issue, I also ate some chocolate mousse (that stuff can be so delicious) , maybe some starch for dinner, sometimes carrot salad or mushrooms etc.. I recently ate tons of strawberries (only for two days though) without the pain coming back, it has come back in a much lighter version when I consumed too much soda, fruits juices, possibly fruits (peaches , apples but those give me instant allergic reactions, itchy skin and throat). 
I think consuming loads of potatoes helps, maybe it replenishes vitamins and minerals. I'd like to find a good calcium source though.
Overall I was quite enjoying my meals, at the moment I feel happy to eat depending on the effects I get rather than just pleasure. I felt really good before the issue arose which is what baffled me. At the time I even wondered if metabolism and hormones profile were improving enough so that bile flow was restored and gallstones had to move out of the way.

I agree on what you said about people trying the Ray Peat diet, and that's one of the issues with Ray, no matter what we say he always recommends a particular diet that I've seen very few people do well on. I'm reading older posts by haidut at the moment they are really interesting as they raise a lot of questions (liver health ..). A number of people reported temperature drops and worst health from too much liquid. I most likely was/am hypothyroid given how I've felt  over the years despite being young, lean etc...


Quote:Yeah, that does sound scary! I've dealt with liver/gallbladder pains, but none that radiated in my arm and up to my head. I get pale stools and liver/gallbladder pains when consuming too much fat, but had it mostly during the time I consumed dairy and was on heavy doses of minocycline. The pains usually accompany indigestion - this heaviness in the middle of my chest and a constant feeling like the need to burp that never materializes. My mum, aunt, uncle and cousin had similar symptoms before their gallbladders were removed.

I meant to ask you before, what does mole-o-genic mean? Google didn't know either.  Smile

Does taurine help you?

I did not get the burp feeling, I've seen people report both doing well and not doing well after their gallbladder was removed, not sure what to make of it. I've read about the idea that fat stimulates bile acids, maybe you have gallstones/ that have not come out yet?

I decided it means it encourages moles growth .
#14
Wagner83 Wrote:I was drinking quality orange juice and milk when I had the issue, I also ate some chocolate mousse (that stuff can be so delicious) , maybe some starch for dinner, sometimes carrot salad or mushrooms etc.. I recently ate tons of strawberries (only for two days though) without the pain coming back, it has come back in a much lighter version when I consumed too much soda, fruits juices, possibly fruits (peaches , apples but those give me instant allergic reactions, itchy skin and throat). I think consuming loads of potatoes helps, maybe it replenishes vitamins and minerals. I'd like to find a good calcium source though.

Mousse is life! I'd swim in a sea of it if I could. Big Grin

If you tolerate it, you could always supplement with eggshell powder or if you prefer food sources, dried herbs like savory, basil, marjoram, dill, oregano, sage, parsley, rosemary, cilantro and chives are all high in calcium, and there are also greens like grape leaves, collards etc. Oven roasted potatoes and hearty soups and stews make great vehicles for herbs and greens. I make calcium rich herbal concentrates (similar to how Ray makes his magnesium supplement from boiled greens) that include horsetail and nettle for my bones.

Wagner83 Wrote:Overall I was quite enjoying my meals, at the moment I feel happy to eat depending on the effects I get rather than just pleasure.

Yep, I understand. Nothing tastes better to me than health.

Wagner83 Wrote:I agree on what you said about people trying the Ray Peat diet, and that's one of the issues with Ray, no matter what we say he always recommends a particular diet that I've seen very few people do well on. I'm reading older posts by haidut at the moment they are really interesting as they raise a lot of questions (liver health ..). A number of people reported temperature drops and worst health from too much liquid. I most likely was/am hypothyroid given how I've felt  over the years despite being young, lean etc...

Does taurine help you?

I did not get the burp feeling, I've seen people report both doing well and not doing well after their gallbladder was removed, not sure what to make of it. I've read about the idea that fat stimulates bile acids, maybe you have gallstones/ that have not come out yet?

Yeah, Ray told me the diet he recommends, and even though he didn't state exact quantities like 2 liters of milk and 1 liter of OJ (though, he did state exactly how much protein he recommends), the foods he recommended were the foods I'd say most of us have known him to recommend time and time again. When trying to base our diet around those foods, while getting enough protein, carbs, calcium etc. and avoiding problematic ingredients and too much of certain constituents (like PUFAs), I think milk and OJ tend to become the "*raises an anti-authority fist in the air*" by default. 

The temperature drop issue was a tricky one for me. Do the temperatures drop due to down regulating the metabolism or due to reducing stress hormones that were falsely elevating temps? And if temps rise, is it due to raising the metabolism or due to raising stress hormones? The only real way I was ever able to tell the difference was if I had cold extremities, heart palpitations or my face and ears were burning up. Those were my signs that despite my warmer temps, I was actually running on adrenaline.

Honestly, I'm not sure if taurine helps me. I don't do well with isolates, in general, so I haven't supplemented with it. I do know that my gallbladder was at its worst while eating a diet high in taurine rich foods, and it's currently doing the best it has in years while eating a diet extremely low in taurine. At least, I'm guessing it's extremely low given I consume a fruitarian diet?

I know for certain I had gallstone because right before I began full on Peating, they were discovered (via ultrasound) during an ER visit. This was after I had been refeeding for 1 1/2 years on 6000+ calories daily. I was finally able to put weight on and quell my insatiable hunger, but my body couldn't keep up and things only got worse while Peating. I found myself intolerant to almost everything before finally dropping dairy.

At one point, I had contemplated asking my doctor about lithotripsy (uses ultrasound waves to break up gallstones), but I continue to see improvements through diet and herbs so I believe with time, I'll be free of the stones I possibly still have.
"One regret, my dear world, that I am determined not to have when I am lying on my deathbed is that I did not kiss you enough." ~ Hafiz
#15
Quote:Mousse is life! I'd swim in a sea of it if I could. Big Grin

If you tolerate it, you could always supplement with eggshell powder or if you prefer food sources, dried herbs like savory, basil, marjoram, dill, oregano, sage, parsley, rosemary, cilantro and chives are all high in calcium, and there are also greens like grape leaves, collards etc. Oven roasted potatoes and hearty soups and stews make great vehicles for herbs and greens. I make calcium rich herbal concentrates (similar to how Ray makes his magnesium supplement from boiled greens) that include horsetail and nettle for my bones.


Yep, I understand. Nothing tastes better to me than health.

Thanks for suggesting those herbs, I had been underwhelmed by kale and spinach but will make a thread on the other ones. I always loved potatoes in the oven with herbs like oregano, lemon juice and olive oil.. Do you notice a difference with the calcium and other vitamins/minerals in there?



Quote:Yeah, Ray told me the diet he recommends, and even though he didn't state exact quantities like 2 liters of milk and 1 liter of OJ (though, he did state exactly how much protein he recommends), the foods he recommended were the foods I'd say most of us have known him to recommend time and time again. When trying to base our diet around those foods, while getting enough protein, carbs, calcium etc. and avoiding problematic ingredients and too much of certain constituents (like PUFAs), I think milk and OJ tend to become the "*raises an anti-authority fist in the air*" by default. 

Yes for sure, but as anyone can witness on forums, very rare are those who do well on such a diet. Milk in particular seems to be very tricky, the assumption that starch will be absorbed in the blood stream and clog everything in there over time because two studies done on mice with uncooked starch showed it happened makes little sense to me. A lot of people live healthy lives with potatoes and maybe some white bread as staples imo.. Bashing starch instantly and dogmatically is one thing, now if you react badly to some foods that's an other .


Quote:The temperature drop issue was a tricky one for me. Do the temperatures drop due to down regulating the metabolism or due to reducing stress hormones that were falsely elevating temps? And if temps rise, is it due to raising the metabolism or due to raising stress hormones? The only real way I was ever able to tell the difference was if I had cold extremities, heart palpitations or my face and ears were burning up. Those were my signs that despite my warmer temps, I was actually running on adrenaline.
I don't know how good I am at judging these differences but they do not feel really the same to me, one feels probably more like flush, and as you said there are ways to know for sure.

Quote:Honestly, I'm not sure if taurine helps me. I don't do well with isolates, in general, so I haven't supplemented with it. I do know that my gallbladder was at its worst while eating a diet high in taurine rich foods, and it's currently doing the best it has in years while eating a diet extremely low in taurine. At least, I'm guessing it's extremely low given I consume a fruitarian diet?

I know for certain I had gallstone because right before I began full on Peating, they were discovered (via ultrasound) during an ER visit. This was after I had been refeeding for 1 1/2 years on 6000+ calories daily. I was finally able to put weight on and quell my insatiable hunger, but my body couldn't keep up and things only got worse while Peating. I found myself intolerant to almost everything before finally dropping dairy.

At one point, I had contemplated asking my doctor about lithotripsy (uses ultrasound waves to break up gallstones), but I continue to see improvements through diet and herbs so I believe with time, I'll be free of the stones I possibly still have.

I just drank 75-100 cl of apple juice over two days, after some time in the second day and a coffee I had muscles contractions in the back, weird tensions and then felt something flow downwards as if it had been freed, I had to go to the toilets right after. I'm pretty sure the apple juice dissolved some bile (smell and dark (green?) water in the stools). Maybe your bile can flow fine despite the stones but things like taurine and fat stimulate it too much so stones clog the flow on their way out?

Interesting so dropping dairy let you become tolerant to foods you had become intolerant to ? Westside Pufas has mentioned this a few times, people eating starch quite often do not do well if they eat dairy. Not sure why.

That sounds reasonable, I've heard about the ultrasounds but have no first or second hand experience with them.

Since you consume all those fruits and fruit juices, did you ever check things like pancreas and liver function (or fatty liver)?
#16
.Wagner83 Wrote:Thanks for suggesting those herbs, I had been underwhelmed by kale and spinach but will make a thread on the other ones. I always loved potatoes in the oven with herbs like oregano, lemon juice and olive oil.. Do you notice a difference with the calcium and other vitamins/minerals in there?

You're welcome! Yeah, roasted potatoes are great. Winter squash, too. I'll have to get back to you on the effects of the herbal concentrate. I'm still testing it out. My blood work shows my PTH level is in range (lower end) while eating a fruitarian diet low in calcium, while Peating with dairy had my PTH level always out of range (high) so I'm testing to see if I get an elevated PTH level from plant calcium. The horsetail and nettles are for their high silica content, which I've used in the past with good results.

Wagner83 Wrote:Yes for sure, but as anyone can witness on forums, very rare are those who do well on such a diet. Milk in particular seems to be very tricky, the assumption that starch will be absorbed in the blood stream and clog everything in there over time because two studies done on mice with uncooked starch showed it happened makes little sense to me. A lot of people live healthy lives with potatoes and maybe some white bread as staples imo.. Bashing starch instantly and dogmatically is one thing, now if you react badly to some foods that's an other .

Yep, I completely agree. I would need to see studies done with fully cooked starches (on humans and not funded by any biased parties) before I can consider them a persorption issue. Looking at a persorption article on functionalalps.com, cellulose is also mentioned as a suspect which doesn't sit well with me given that all plants contain cellulose and we aren't designed to be strict carnivores.  

Wagner83 Wrote:I just drank 75-100 cl of apple juice over two days, after some time in the second day and a coffee I had muscles contractions in the back, weird tensions and then felt something flow downwards as if it had been freed, I had to go to the toilets right after. I'm pretty sure the apple juice dissolved some bile (smell and dark (green?) water in the stools). Maybe your bile can flow fine despite the stones but things like taurine and fat stimulate it too much so stones clog the flow on their way out?

Interesting so dropping dairy let you become tolerant to foods you had become intolerant to ? Westside Pufas has mentioned this a few times, people eating starch quite often do not do well if they eat dairy. Not sure why.

Since you consume all those fruits and fruit juices, did you ever check things like pancreas and liver function (or fatty liver)?

Huh, it seems so. I know apples contain malic acid which is said to dissolve gallstones. After the episode, did you feel noticeably better than before the whole episode occurred?

Prior to dropping it, I pushed dairy (tried many kinds) for roughly 6 years, and very heavily the last 2, in an attempt to tolerate it and ended up developing gastritis (confirmed by an upper endoscopy) and the overgrowth (confirmed by Genova Diagnostics stool test), and was put on high doses of minocycline the last 6 months before cutting out dairy completely, which only messed my gut even up more. So no, I wasn't able to tolerate all the foods I became intolerant to, particularly starch. It took me months after I dropped dairy before I could even digest the creamer potatoes without severe gut pain.

I suspect dairy and starch are problematic for some when consumed together simply because both have sugars that are harder to digest and support abundant bacterial growth, and dairy also has proteins that have been shown to cause reactions for some. For me, the more concentrated the dairy proteins were, the worse my symptoms got. Cheese was a nightmare. To this day, I care barely look at it without wanting to buckle in half.

Yep, my pancreas and liver function are good. Except for the toxic mold that was discovered in my labs, all my tests (CMP, cholesterol, iron, my thyroid panel and other hormones etc.) look great. Eating this way, my progesterone level is actually as high as it was when I was going through a bottle of Progest-E a week back in 2014/2015. I finally have a menstrual cycle without the use of supplemental hormones. And like I mentioned above, my PTH is finally in range, which is especially important to me since I need to rebuild my spine.
"One regret, my dear world, that I am determined not to have when I am lying on my deathbed is that I did not kiss you enough." ~ Hafiz
#17
(05-27-2017, 04:50 PM)Jennifer Wrote: You're welcome! Yeah, roasted potatoes are great. Winter squash, too. I'll have to get back to you on the effects of the herbal concentrate. I'm still testing it out. My blood work shows my PTH level is in range (lower end) while eating a fruitarian diet low in calcium, while Peating with dairy had my PTH level always out of range (high) so I'm testing to see if I get an elevated PTH level from plant calcium. The horsetail and nettles are for their high silica content, which I've used in the past with good results.

Yep, I completely agree. I would need to see studies done with fully cooked starches (on humans and not funded by any biased parties) before I can consider them a persorption issue. Looking at a persorption article on functionalalps.com, cellulose is also mentioned as a suspect which doesn't sit well with me given that all plants contain cellulose and we aren't designed to be strict carnivores.
Huh, it seems so. I know apples contain malic acid which is said to dissolve gallstones. After the episode, did you feel noticeably better than before the whole episode occurred?

Winter squash have good nutrients in them but not enough calories for my taste. Ok let us know then. Is silica any good? Didn'y Ray comment on silica added to supplements as being equivalent to powdered glass?

Ok I did not know similar studies were done on cellulose. I'm not even sure it's an issue, I don't why he settled for such studies, maybe he was just cautious and got negative effects from them anyway. He did mention persorption as a real concern a few times on podcasts.

I can't say so, I did not have particular problems with bile flow (judging by colour of stools) , and I always feel better after visiting the toilets. I'm tempted to repeat the experience until such reactions do not occur, but I'd certainly prefer avoiding acute bile problems , who knows maybe it was the problem I had on the Peatish diet and malic acid could solve that?

Quote:Prior to dropping it, I pushed dairy (tried many kinds) for roughly 6 years, and very heavily the last 2, in an attempt to tolerate it and ended up developing gastritis (confirmed by an upper endoscopy) and the overgrowth (confirmed by Genova Diagnostics stool test), and was put on high doses of minocycline the last 6 months before cutting out dairy completely, which only messed my gut even up more. So no, I wasn't able to tolerate all the foods I became intolerant to, particularly starch. It took me months after I dropped dairy before I could even digest the creamer potatoes without severe gut pain.

I suspect dairy and starch are problematic for some when consumed together simply because both have sugars that are harder to digest and support abundant bacterial growth, and dairy also has proteins that have been shown to cause reactions for some. For me, the more concentrated the dairy proteins were, the worse my symptoms got. Cheese was a nightmare. To this day, I care barely look at it without wanting to buckle in half.

Yep, my pancreas and liver function are good. Except for the toxic mold that was discovered in my labs, all my tests (CMP, cholesterol, iron, my thyroid panel and other hormones etc.) look great. Eating this way, my progesterone level is actually as high as it was when I was going through a bottle of Progest-E a week back in 2014/2015. I finally have a menstrual cycle without the use of supplemental hormones. And like I mentioned above, my PTH is finally in range, which is especially important to me since I need to rebuild my spine.

THat's very anti Peat, dairy being awful despite years of effort and minocycline destroying gut health.

Hard cheese gives histamine like reactions to many, not to mention constipation. Soft cheese seems to be easier to process. I had a grandfather who went on to live a century and would be horrified at the smell and sight of cheese any time it was brought to a table right until the end!

That's good to know, tyw made posts on how fructose could easily overload the liver, I saw one or two reports of fatty liver on a Peatish high fruits diet, and an other member as I mentioned before developped acute pancreatitis on a fruitarian diet so I'm a bit cautious with fructose/fruit juice, even more so with the bad experience I had. Did you test for lypase, amylase, ALP, AST, ALT, bilirubin?
I forgot to mention that I did blood test during the bad experience I had and all those enzymes except bilirubin where in range. Haidut suggested fructose/sucrose/malic and citric acids could possibly chelate minerals at a rapid pace, the minerals they tested for were in range. .
#18
Silica is very important mineral for human body. Especially for connective tissue and bones.. I think that Peat was talking about silicone? Which is not the same as natural silica? Diatomaceous earth is a good source of natural silica. People have great results with taking this stuff.. Same with borax(boron) These trace minerals are very important for example for strong bones, much more than calcium alone.. Diatomaceous earth is also great for killing parasites, bad bacteria etc..
#19
(05-28-2017, 04:09 PM)YuraCZ Wrote: Silica is very important mineral for human body. Especially for connective tissue and bones.. I think that Peat was talking about silicone? Which is not the same as natural silica? Diatomaceous earth is a good source of natural silica. People have great results with taking this stuff.. Same with borax(boron) These trace minerals are very important for example for strong bones, much more than calcium alone.. Diatomaceous earth is also great for killing parasites, bad bacteria etc..

I know he was talking about silica/silicon dioxide from supplements but not sure what he thinks about the importance and safety of silica from food. I don't agree on borax, I don't see why it would be more important for bones than calcium and for many people it gives an estrogenic effect (see the studies done on it). Not sure why one would supplement this mineral nor what the safety is but if it helps you then why not.
Diatomaceous earth also contains aluminium and iron, that could be an issue depending on how much you take.
#20
Wagner83 Wrote:Winter squash have good nutrients in them but not enough calories for my taste. Ok let us know then. Is silica any good? Didn'y Ray comment on silica added to supplements as being equivalent to powdered glass?

I haven't seen Ray's comment about it being equivalent to glass, but I wouldn't be surprised if he did say that. He said this in the 2/15/2013 KMUD interview:

"…people taking supplements should be very careful to avoid anything with particles such as titanium dioxide or silica. […] And those things getting into the bloodstream trigger the stress hormones, and obesity is the least of the things they contribute to."

The last time I used horsetail and nettle, I noticed my teeth whitened, my skin softened and ridging I had in my nails went away, but I can't be sure it was the herbs because I had also changed my diet around the same time. Since I've been eating a fruit based diet since 2015, I figured I'd be able to isolate if those positive effects were a result of the herbs.

Wagner83 Wrote:Ok I did not know similar studies were done on cellulose. I'm not even sure it's an issue, I don't why he settled for such studies, maybe he was just cautious and got negative effects from them anyway. He did mention persorption as a real concern a few times on podcasts.

I can't say so, I did not have particular problems with bile flow (judging by colour of stools) , and I always feel better after visiting the toilets. I'm tempted to repeat the experience until such reactions do not occur, but I'd certainly prefer avoiding acute bile problems , who knows maybe it was the problem I had on the Peatish diet and malic acid could solve that?

This is the functional alps article I came across:

http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2011/10/22/3169/

I think the main issue is particle size, and that's why I've never understood how well cooked starch could cause persorption issues. I've experimented with mixing cornstarch and some water in a pan and letting it come to a boil. It turned into a translucent, gelatin like mass. Well, imagine tapioca pearls. I just can't see how that would pose a persorption issue.

Did you consume mostly low-fat or full-fat dairy on your Peatish diet? I handled low-fat milk better than full-fat. With full-fat, I not only got the rash but I started getting the tiny pustules, gallbladder pains and sloshing gut. I asked Ray about this and he replied "Too much cream makes milk hard for some people to digest, so I usually recommend 1% fat milk, and low-fat cheeses, such as cottage cheese or mozzarella."

Wagner83 Wrote:THat's very anti Peat, dairy being awful despite years of effort and minocycline destroying gut health.

Hard cheese gives histamine like reactions to many, not to mention constipation. Soft cheese seems to be easier to process. I had a grandfather who went on to live a century and would be horrified at the smell and sight of cheese any time it was brought to a table right until the end!

That's good to know, tyw made posts on how fructose could easily overload the liver, I saw one or two reports of fatty liver on a Peatish high fruits diet, and an other member as I mentioned before developped acute pancreatitis on a fruitarian diet so I'm a bit cautious with fructose/fruit juice, even more so with the bad experience I had. Did you test for lypase, amylase, ALP, AST, ALT, bilirubin?
I forgot to mention that I did blood test during the bad experience I had and all those enzymes except bilirubin where in range. Haidut suggested fructose/sucrose/malic and citric acids could possibly chelate minerals at a rapid pace, the minerals they tested for were in range. .

Well, in fairness to Ray and his advice, I came to the diet with some major handicaps. I won't bore you with the details, but let's just say my body was in very rough shape.

That's really interesting about your grandfather. Thanks for sharing. My 92 year old grandmother often talks about how she and her siblings ate nothing but meals of mashed potatoes while growing up during the Depression. To this day, she loves her potatoes. Westside PUFAs would be proud. lol

Yep, my doctor had me tested for those. With my latest blood work, she ordered a total of 40 tests.
"One regret, my dear world, that I am determined not to have when I am lying on my deathbed is that I did not kiss you enough." ~ Hafiz
  


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