Paging VOS: 72 year-old male with idiopathic anemia, dyspnea
#1
Hey, do u think ceylon cinnamon might lower BUN? 72 year old male with anemia (hemoglobin 10) and high bun but normal creatinine. I think his anemia is from low cholesterol. Total cholesterol 124. BUN is 36mg/dl, normal creatinine (1.1). I dont know if the low cholesterol is responsible for the anemia since wbc are high, but maybe his body is making those preferentially over rbcs. Breathing problems is main complaint, BUN is not always high and breathing problems persist with normal BUN. Still i think the ceylon cinnamon might be a good addition. Thoughts?


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[color=#222222][size=medium]"I have no religion, no political affiliation: I believe in me, above everything else." -Chasing Good & Evil[/size][/color]
#2
I think this person is suffering from hyponatremia (too much water) and hypovolemia (too little blood).

If I am right, when you check his urine pH, it will be low. Normal pH of the urine is around 6.4. His might be 6 or even less, depending on how much protein he has eaten recently.

The harder question I cannot answer is this: What sort of self-treatment is the person willing to do? 

Many people believe they should do only what the medical institution directs them to do.  They go for more tests, and more treatments, and then more tests and more treatments, until in the end, they are broke and die a miserable death.

And of course, the medical institution seeks to have people give up their money and assets to the institution, and then die. Population control is the natural goal of government and its institutions.

To be practical: Will this person measure the pH of his urine? 

Will he take alkaline bicarbonate until his pH normalizes in his urine? Will he add a tablespoon of salt or more to his diet over the course of the day?

To help his kidneys, will he cut back on low quality protein in the diet, and eat only a modest amount of eggs and kefir or yogurt?  

Do not try to get his urea level down. If I am right about his hyponatremia, then high urea is saving his life, right now. Increasing urea is how the body copes with hyponatremia. 
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4192979/
My avatar: William Blake, Vision of Strength
[img]http://i.imgur.com/7sD2Hod.jpg[/img]
#3
(12-20-2016, 06:40 AM)VoS Wrote: I think this person is suffering from hyponatremia (too much water) and hypovolemia (too little blood).

If I am right, when you check his urine pH, it will be low. Normal pH of the urine is around 6.4. His might be 6 or even less, depending on how much protein he has eaten recently.

The harder question I cannot answer is this: What sort of self-treatment is the person willing to do? 

Many people believe they should do only what the medical institution directs them to do.  They go for more tests, and more treatments, and then more tests and more treatments, until in the end, they are broke and die a miserable death.

And of course, the medical institution seeks to have people give up their money and assets to the institution, and then die. Population control is the natural goal of government and its institutions.

To be practical: Will this person measure the pH of his urine? 

Will he take alkaline bicarbonate until his pH normalizes in his urine? Will he add a tablespoon of salt or more to his diet over the course of the day?

To help his kidneys, will he cut back on low quality protein in the diet, and eat only a modest amount of eggs and kefir or yogurt?  

Do not try to get his urea level down. If I am right about his hyponatremia, then high urea is saving his life, right now. Increasing urea is how the body copes with hyponatremia. 
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4192979/

You're exactly correct, his UpH wa 6.0 earlier, now down to 5.5. Ive attached his arterial blood gasses. You're also right his sodium is low. If his blood ph is high, wouldn't bicarbonate make it more basic, since it presumably increases serum bicarbonate? I dont want to make his blood more basic. Ayways wouod doses would you recommend? 

H has severe dsypna, hene my desire to control ammonia, do you think i should address ammonia a different way or am i getting urea confused with ammonia in terms of redcing it with ceylon cinnamon?

He will do all these things.


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[color=#222222][size=medium]"I have no religion, no political affiliation: I believe in me, above everything else." -Chasing Good & Evil[/size][/color]
#4
(12-20-2016, 06:40 AM)VoS Wrote: I think this person is suffering from hyponatremia (too much water) and hypovolemia (too little blood).

If I am right, when you check his urine pH, it will be low. Normal pH of the urine is around 6.4. His might be 6 or even less, depending on how much protein he has eaten recently.

The harder question I cannot answer is this: What sort of self-treatment is the person willing to do? 

Many people believe they should do only what the medical institution directs them to do.  They go for more tests, and more treatments, and then more tests and more treatments, until in the end, they are broke and die a miserable death.

And of course, the medical institution seeks to have people give up their money and assets to the institution, and then die. Population control is the natural goal of government and its institutions.

To be practical: Will this person measure the pH of his urine? 

Will he take alkaline bicarbonate until his pH normalizes in his urine? Will he add a tablespoon of salt or more to his diet over the course of the day?

To help his kidneys, will he cut back on low quality protein in the diet, and eat only a modest amount of eggs and kefir or yogurt?  

Do not try to get his urea level down. If I am right about his hyponatremia, then high urea is saving his life, right now. Increasing urea is how the body copes with hyponatremia. 
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4192979/
Hi liver enzymes as well the past 24 hrs and increasing creatine kinase.
[color=#222222][size=medium]"I have no religion, no political affiliation: I believe in me, above everything else." -Chasing Good & Evil[/size][/color]
#5
Quote:You're exactly correct, his UpH wa 6.0 earlier, now down to 5.5. Ive attached his arterial blood gasses. You're also right his sodium is low. If his blood ph is high, wouldn't bicarbonate make it more basic, since it presumably increases serum bicarbonate? I dont want to make his blood more basic. Ayways wouod doses would you recommend? 

H has severe dsypna, hene my desire to control ammonia, do you think i should address ammonia a different way or am i getting urea confused with ammonia in terms of redcing it with ceylon cinnamon?

He will do all these things.

High blood pH is something else. That is the result of very serious hyperventilating. His pCO2 is 25 mmhg, which is about the lowest possible reading, and critical. He must be breathing very heavy or panting with difficulty. This would also make it difficult to get a good restorative sleep. 

A good thing to do here would be a bag breathing or slow breathing. Sleeping on the stomach will also help. 

Is he on hemodialysis? Unless there is a hemodialysis, then taking the combination of salt and bicarbonate (preferably sodium and potassium bicarbonate in powder (2:1 ratio), and magnesium bicarbonate in water) will eventually make the urine pH come up. There is not one dose for everybody. I just keep checking the urine pH to see when it reaches 6.4. A tablespoon or even two per day is not unusual in my experience. The dose should be whatever keeps the urine pH at 6.4.

Taking a tablespoon of salt over the course of the day also balances the fluids. The most common reason for high blood pH (other than vomiting or gastric suction) is lack of chloride ion. Salt prevents this. The second most common would be severe potassium depletion, but the potassium bicarbonate should prevent that.

Also, ammonia is poisonous, but urea is non-toxic. Poisonous ammonia should be converted to non-toxic urea and then excreted. But this requires an abundance of CO2. 

When there is a lack of CO2, as there is here, then the ammonia can never be converted to urea, leading to a poisonous accumulation of ammonia.

However, once the fluids and pH are balanced, then there will be more CO2, and poisonous ammonia should start to be converted to non-toxic urea and excreted. But this only happens in the presence of sufficient CO2. 

Limiting low quality protein intake will also reduce ammonia and other toxin buildup, and help the kidney. High quality protein is found in eggs, fermented dairy such as kefir or yogurt, and collagen hydrolysate. But even high quality protein should be limited to 40 grams a day or less, if there seems to be a kidney injury, as there seems to be here, with the electrolyte imbalance. 

As long as protein intake is low, then a urea powder in capsule form can be used to keep the urea level high and improve the fluid balance and eliminate ammonia.

A half teaspoon to a teaspoon of urea powder can be swallowed in capsules, several times a day. If the capsules cause gastric disturbance, then the urea can be dissolved in water and simple syrup. 

For a fuel source, the only really safe one is ketones from MCT emulsified with egg yolk and then mixed with any dessert. The liver and kidneys use ketones for fuel if it is available.
My avatar: William Blake, Vision of Strength
[img]http://i.imgur.com/7sD2Hod.jpg[/img]
#6
[attachment=22 Wrote:VoS pid='1232' dateline='1482231618']
Quote:You're exactly correct, his UpH wa 6.0 earlier, now down to 5.5. Ive attached his arterial blood gasses. You're also right his sodium is low. If his blood ph is high, wouldn't bicarbonate make it more basic, since it presumably increases serum bicarbonate? I dont want to make his blood more basic. Ayways wouod doses would you recommend? 

H has severe dsypna, hene my desire to control ammonia, do you think i should address ammonia a different way or am i getting urea confused with ammonia in terms of redcing it with ceylon cinnamon?

He will do all these things.

High blood pH is something else. That is the result of very serious hyperventilating. His pCO2 is 25 mmhg, which is about the lowest possible reading, and critical. He must be breathing very heavy or panting with difficulty. This would also make it difficult to get a good restorative sleep. 

A good thing to do here would be a bag breathing or slow breathing. Sleeping on the stomach will also help. 

Is he on hemodialysis? Unless there is a hemodialysis, then taking the combination of salt and bicarbonate (preferably sodium and potassium bicarbonate in powder (2:1 ratio), and magnesium bicarbonate in water) will eventually make the urine pH come up. There is not one dose for everybody. I just keep checking the urine pH to see when it reaches 6.4. A tablespoon or even two per day is not unusual in my experience. The dose should be whatever keeps the urine pH at 6.4.

Taking a tablespoon of salt over the course of the day also balances the fluids. The most common reason for high blood pH (other than vomiting or gastric suction) is lack of chloride ion. Salt prevents this. The second most common would be severe potassium depletion, but the potassium bicarbonate should prevent that.

Also, ammonia is poisonous, but urea is non-toxic. Poisonous ammonia should be converted to non-toxic urea and then excreted. But this requires an abundance of CO2. 

When there is a lack of CO2, as there is here, then the ammonia can never be converted to urea, leading to a poisonous accumulation of ammonia.

However, once the fluids and pH are balanced, then there will be more CO2, and poisonous ammonia should start to be converted to non-toxic urea and excreted. But this only happens in the presence of sufficient CO2. 

Limiting low quality protein intake will also reduce ammonia and other toxin buildup, and help the kidney. High quality protein is found in eggs, fermented dairy such as kefir or yogurt, and collagen hydrolysate. But even high quality protein should be limited to 40 grams a day or less, if there seems to be a kidney injury, as there seems to be here, with the electrolyte imbalance. 

As long as protein intake is low, then a urea powder in capsule form can be used to keep the urea level high and improve the fluid balance and eliminate ammonia.

A half teaspoon to a teaspoon of urea powder can be swallowed in capsules, several times a day. If the capsules cause gastric disturbance, then the urea can be dissolved in water and simple syrup. 

For a fuel source, the only really safe one is ketones from MCT emulsified with egg yolk and then mixed with any dessert. The liver and kidneys use ketones for fuel if it is available.

Amazing information, you're right again on the electrolytes. So it sounds like the goal of the alkaline salts is to improve renal function, there might be a temporary increase in blood ph,  but in the long run it will bring blood ph down? I this correct? Thank you. So much vos, this is great information!
   
[color=#222222][size=medium]"I have no religion, no political affiliation: I believe in me, above everything else." -Chasing Good & Evil[/size][/color]
#7
(12-20-2016, 11:00 AM)VoS Wrote:
Quote:You're exactly correct, his UpH wa 6.0 earlier, now down to 5.5. Ive attached his arterial blood gasses. You're also right his sodium is low. If his blood ph is high, wouldn't bicarbonate make it more basic, since it presumably increases serum bicarbonate? I dont want to make his blood more basic. Ayways wouod doses would you recommend? 

H has severe dsypna, hene my desire to control ammonia, do you think i should address ammonia a different way or am i getting urea confused with ammonia in terms of redcing it with ceylon cinnamon?

He will do all these things.

High blood pH is something else. That is the result of very serious hyperventilating. His pCO2 is 25 mmhg, which is about the lowest possible reading, and critical. He must be breathing very heavy or panting with difficulty. This would also make it difficult to get a good restorative sleep. 

A good thing to do here would be a bag breathing or slow breathing. Sleeping on the stomach will also help. 

Is he on hemodialysis? Unless there is a hemodialysis, then taking the combination of salt and bicarbonate (preferably sodium and potassium bicarbonate in powder (2:1 ratio), and magnesium bicarbonate in water) will eventually make the urine pH come up. There is not one dose for everybody. I just keep checking the urine pH to see when it reaches 6.4. A tablespoon or even two per day is not unusual in my experience. The dose should be whatever keeps the urine pH at 6.4.

Taking a tablespoon of salt over the course of the day also balances the fluids. The most common reason for high blood pH (other than vomiting or gastric suction) is lack of chloride ion. Salt prevents this. The second most common would be severe potassium depletion, but the potassium bicarbonate should prevent that.

Also, ammonia is poisonous, but urea is non-toxic. Poisonous ammonia should be converted to non-toxic urea and then excreted. But this requires an abundance of CO2. 

When there is a lack of CO2, as there is here, then the ammonia can never be converted to urea, leading to a poisonous accumulation of ammonia.

However, once the fluids and pH are balanced, then there will be more CO2, and poisonous ammonia should start to be converted to non-toxic urea and excreted. But this only happens in the presence of sufficient CO2. 

Limiting low quality protein intake will also reduce ammonia and other toxin buildup, and help the kidney. High quality protein is found in eggs, fermented dairy such as kefir or yogurt, and collagen hydrolysate. But even high quality protein should be limited to 40 grams a day or less, if there seems to be a kidney injury, as there seems to be here, with the electrolyte imbalance. 

As long as protein intake is low, then a urea powder in capsule form can be used to keep the urea level high and improve the fluid balance and eliminate ammonia.

A half teaspoon to a teaspoon of urea powder can be swallowed in capsules, several times a day. If the capsules cause gastric disturbance, then the urea can be dissolved in water and simple syrup. 

For a fuel source, the only really safe one is ketones from MCT emulsified with egg yolk and then mixed with any dessert. The liver and kidneys use ketones for fuel if it is available.

He's been on lasix for awhile, too, now they've switched his diuretic. What's your advice here? I presume salt and bicarbonatesx in a two to one ratio, will improve renal function Do u think he should stop diuretics?
[color=#222222][size=medium]"I have no religion, no political affiliation: I believe in me, above everything else." -Chasing Good & Evil[/size][/color]
#8
I told him 2/3rds teaspoon sea salt 1/3rd teaspoon baking soda twice a day.
[color=#222222][size=medium]"I have no religion, no political affiliation: I believe in me, above everything else." -Chasing Good & Evil[/size][/color]
#9
(12-20-2016, 04:03 PM)ChasingGoodandEvil Wrote:
(12-20-2016, 11:00 AM)VoS Wrote:
Quote:You're exactly correct, his UpH wa 6.0 earlier, now down to 5.5. Ive attached his arterial blood gasses. You're also right his sodium is low. If his blood ph is high, wouldn't bicarbonate make it more basic, since it presumably increases serum bicarbonate? I dont want to make his blood more basic. Ayways wouod doses would you recommend? 

H has severe dsypna, hene my desire to control ammonia, do you think i should address ammonia a different way or am i getting urea confused with ammonia in terms of redcing it with ceylon cinnamon?

He will do all these things.

High blood pH is something else. That is the result of very serious hyperventilating. His pCO2 is 25 mmhg, which is about the lowest possible reading, and critical. He must be breathing very heavy or panting with difficulty. This would also make it difficult to get a good restorative sleep. 

A good thing to do here would be a bag breathing or slow breathing. Sleeping on the stomach will also help. 

Is he on hemodialysis? Unless there is a hemodialysis, then taking the combination of salt and bicarbonate (preferably sodium and potassium bicarbonate in powder (2:1 ratio), and magnesium bicarbonate in water) will eventually make the urine pH come up. There is not one dose for everybody. I just keep checking the urine pH to see when it reaches 6.4. A tablespoon or even two per day is not unusual in my experience. The dose should be whatever keeps the urine pH at 6.4.

Taking a tablespoon of salt over the course of the day also balances the fluids. The most common reason for high blood pH (other than vomiting or gastric suction) is lack of chloride ion. Salt prevents this. The second most common would be severe potassium depletion, but the potassium bicarbonate should prevent that.

Also, ammonia is poisonous, but urea is non-toxic. Poisonous ammonia should be converted to non-toxic urea and then excreted. But this requires an abundance of CO2. 

When there is a lack of CO2, as there is here, then the ammonia can never be converted to urea, leading to a poisonous accumulation of ammonia.

However, once the fluids and pH are balanced, then there will be more CO2, and poisonous ammonia should start to be converted to non-toxic urea and excreted. But this only happens in the presence of sufficient CO2. 

Limiting low quality protein intake will also reduce ammonia and other toxin buildup, and help the kidney. High quality protein is found in eggs, fermented dairy such as kefir or yogurt, and collagen hydrolysate. But even high quality protein should be limited to 40 grams a day or less, if there seems to be a kidney injury, as there seems to be here, with the electrolyte imbalance. 

As long as protein intake is low, then a urea powder in capsule form can be used to keep the urea level high and improve the fluid balance and eliminate ammonia.

A half teaspoon to a teaspoon of urea powder can be swallowed in capsules, several times a day. If the capsules cause gastric disturbance, then the urea can be dissolved in water and simple syrup. 

For a fuel source, the only really safe one is ketones from MCT emulsified with egg yolk and then mixed with any dessert. The liver and kidneys use ketones for fuel if it is available.

He's been on lasix for awhile, too, now they've switched his diuretic. What's your advice here? I presume salt and bicarbonatesx in a two to one ratio, will improve renal function Do u think he should stop diuretics?

High dose urea is very effective against the body's anti-diuretic hormones. 
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3474650/

But it needs to be combined with less protein, and only high quality protein, such as eggs or fermented dairy.
My avatar: William Blake, Vision of Strength
[img]http://i.imgur.com/7sD2Hod.jpg[/img]
#10
(12-20-2016, 03:36 PM)ChasingGoodandEvil Wrote:
(12-20-2016, 11:00 AM)VoS Wrote:
Quote:You're exactly correct, his UpH wa 6.0 earlier, now down to 5.5. Ive attached his arterial blood gasses. You're also right his sodium is low. If his blood ph is high, wouldn't bicarbonate make it more basic, since it presumably increases serum bicarbonate? I dont want to make his blood more basic. Ayways wouod doses would you recommend? 

H has severe dsypna, hene my desire to control ammonia, do you think i should address ammonia a different way or am i getting urea confused with ammonia in terms of redcing it with ceylon cinnamon?

He will do all these things.

High blood pH is something else. That is the result of very serious hyperventilating. His pCO2 is 25 mmhg, which is about the lowest possible reading, and critical. He must be breathing very heavy or panting with difficulty. This would also make it difficult to get a good restorative sleep. 

A good thing to do here would be a bag breathing or slow breathing. Sleeping on the stomach will also help. 

Is he on hemodialysis? Unless there is a hemodialysis, then taking the combination of salt and bicarbonate (preferably sodium and potassium bicarbonate in powder (2:1 ratio), and magnesium bicarbonate in water) will eventually make the urine pH come up. There is not one dose for everybody. I just keep checking the urine pH to see when it reaches 6.4. A tablespoon or even two per day is not unusual in my experience. The dose should be whatever keeps the urine pH at 6.4.

Taking a tablespoon of salt over the course of the day also balances the fluids. The most common reason for high blood pH (other than vomiting or gastric suction) is lack of chloride ion. Salt prevents this. The second most common would be severe potassium depletion, but the potassium bicarbonate should prevent that.

Also, ammonia is poisonous, but urea is non-toxic. Poisonous ammonia should be converted to non-toxic urea and then excreted. But this requires an abundance of CO2. 

When there is a lack of CO2, as there is here, then the ammonia can never be converted to urea, leading to a poisonous accumulation of ammonia.

However, once the fluids and pH are balanced, then there will be more CO2, and poisonous ammonia should start to be converted to non-toxic urea and excreted. But this only happens in the presence of sufficient CO2. 

Limiting low quality protein intake will also reduce ammonia and other toxin buildup, and help the kidney. High quality protein is found in eggs, fermented dairy such as kefir or yogurt, and collagen hydrolysate. But even high quality protein should be limited to 40 grams a day or less, if there seems to be a kidney injury, as there seems to be here, with the electrolyte imbalance. 

As long as protein intake is low, then a urea powder in capsule form can be used to keep the urea level high and improve the fluid balance and eliminate ammonia.

A half teaspoon to a teaspoon of urea powder can be swallowed in capsules, several times a day. If the capsules cause gastric disturbance, then the urea can be dissolved in water and simple syrup. 

For a fuel source, the only really safe one is ketones from MCT emulsified with egg yolk and then mixed with any dessert. The liver and kidneys use ketones for fuel if it is available.

Amazing information, you're right again on the electrolytes. So it sounds like the goal of the alkaline salts is to improve renal function, there might be a temporary increase in blood ph,  but in the long run it will bring blood ph down? I this correct? Thank you. So much vos, this is great information!

The effective thing to bring down blood pH is more CO2. Some ideas are bag breathing, slow breathing, breath holding, and sleeping on the stomach. 

In anesthesiology, they will simply administer CO2 at 68 mmhg, and this brings the blood pH down right away. 

Yes, chloride ions and potassium also prevent it from going even higher.
My avatar: William Blake, Vision of Strength
[img]http://i.imgur.com/7sD2Hod.jpg[/img]
  


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