Mushrooms
#11
(12-01-2016, 03:38 AM)VoS Wrote:
(12-01-2016, 12:02 AM)Jennifer Wrote: Huh, interesting. Even though mushrooms cause me bloating, my stools are odorless. I've been eating 100% plant-based (mostly fruit) since August of 2015 and I guess it's fairly common to have odorless stools on a fruitarian diet. The diet is easy for me to digest and keeps me very regular so I wonder if those are two of the main factors.

Out of curiosity, do you guys notice smelly stools when you eat carrots or bamboo shoots? Because I wonder if the mushrooms are actually clearing out odor causing bacteria and their byproducts? I usually give up on them after a week or so due to the bloating, but I wonder if it takes a couple weeks to reap their benefits?

I thought that insoluble fibers weren't easily fermented by bacteria and that that's why Ray recommends raw carrot, cooked bamboo shoots and boiled mushrooms, but I think I was getting confused by the classification of non-digestible fibers. I did some reading and I'm more confused than ever because it seems they are fermentable, and there are quite a few different ones, at that.

VoS, do you have any thoughts you can add since you've researched this subject? For gut health, do you think I would benefit more from the coconut kefir or giving it a longer trial run with the mushrooms? I want to experiment with one thing at a time.

Yes, I think that, too. It seems transit time is helped by certain kinds of fiber.  I see this:
Quote:The isoflavones (many of which are now being promoted as “antioxidants” and “cancer preventives”) are toxic to many organs, but they have clear estrogenic effects, and are active not only immediately in the mature individual, but when they are present prenatally, they cause feminization of the male genitalia and behavior, and early maturation of the female offspring, with the tissue changes that are known to be associated with increased incidence of cancer. 

There are interesting associations between vegetable “fiber” and estrogens. Because of my own experience in finding that eating a raw carrot daily prevented my migraines, I began to suspect that the carrot fiber was having both a bowel-protective and an antiestrogen effect. Several women who suffered from premenstrual symptoms, including migraine, had their serum estrogen measured before and after the “carrot diet,” and they found that the carrot lowered their estrogen within a few days, as it relieved their symptoms. 

Undigestible fiber, if it isn't broken down by bowel bacteria, increases fecal bulk, and tends to speed the transit of material through the intestine, just as laxatives do. But some of these “fiber” materials, e.g., lignin, are themselves estrogenic, and other fibers, by promoting bacterial growth, can promote the conversion of harmless substances into toxins and carcinogens. When there is a clear “antiestrogen” effect from dietary fiber, it seems to be the result of accelerated transit through the intestine, speeding elimination and preventing reabsorption of the estrogen which has been excreted in the bile. Laxatives have this same effect on the excretion of estradiol. 
Some of the isoflavones, lignins, and other phytoestrogens are said to prevent bowel cancer, but some of them, e.g., lignin, appear to sometimes increase its likelihood. 

About mushrooms, Ray said this:

Quote:Living in decaying organic matter, the mushroom mycelium is exposed to a great variety of bacteria and other fungi. Animals have to deal with a similar microbial situation in their intestines. Even though our internal exposure to microbes and their products isn't very massive, it can have fatal consequences, as explained by Metchnikoff. The success of mushrooms in dealing with their microbe-rich environment can help us to understand our own problems of "immunity," the processes involved in maintaining the integrity of our organism.


I think the idea is that mushrooms and carrot fiber can even deal with the microbe-rich environment in the gut. 

I try to keep a gut that has no microbes, other than lacto-bacillus families found in kefir. Easier said than done. So when I do have an upset in the gut, then I reach for the well-boiled mushrooms, or the carrot fiber, or the granular activated charcoal.

My poop is weird when I eat mushrooms. Comes out with undigested food. I could see whole grains of rice today. Kinda nasty although it is my own poop so I don't care at all. 

Wonder if the mushrooms are having a "cleansing" effect.
#12
(12-01-2016, 03:38 AM)VoS Wrote:
(12-01-2016, 12:02 AM)Jennifer Wrote: Huh, interesting. Even though mushrooms cause me bloating, my stools are odorless. I've been eating 100% plant-based (mostly fruit) since August of 2015 and I guess it's fairly common to have odorless stools on a fruitarian diet. The diet is easy for me to digest and keeps me very regular so I wonder if those are two of the main factors.

Out of curiosity, do you guys notice smelly stools when you eat carrots or bamboo shoots? Because I wonder if the mushrooms are actually clearing out odor causing bacteria and their byproducts? I usually give up on them after a week or so due to the bloating, but I wonder if it takes a couple weeks to reap their benefits?

I thought that insoluble fibers weren't easily fermented by bacteria and that that's why Ray recommends raw carrot, cooked bamboo shoots and boiled mushrooms, but I think I was getting confused by the classification of non-digestible fibers. I did some reading and I'm more confused than ever because it seems they are fermentable, and there are quite a few different ones, at that.

VoS, do you have any thoughts you can add since you've researched this subject? For gut health, do you think I would benefit more from the coconut kefir or giving it a longer trial run with the mushrooms? I want to experiment with one thing at a time.

Yes, I think that, too. It seems transit time is helped by certain kinds of fiber.  I see this:
Quote:The isoflavones (many of which are now being promoted as “antioxidants” and “cancer preventives”) are toxic to many organs, but they have clear estrogenic effects, and are active not only immediately in the mature individual, but when they are present prenatally, they cause feminization of the male genitalia and behavior, and early maturation of the female offspring, with the tissue changes that are known to be associated with increased incidence of cancer. 

There are interesting associations between vegetable “fiber” and estrogens. Because of my own experience in finding that eating a raw carrot daily prevented my migraines, I began to suspect that the carrot fiber was having both a bowel-protective and an antiestrogen effect. Several women who suffered from premenstrual symptoms, including migraine, had their serum estrogen measured before and after the “carrot diet,” and they found that the carrot lowered their estrogen within a few days, as it relieved their symptoms. 

Undigestible fiber, if it isn't broken down by bowel bacteria, increases fecal bulk, and tends to speed the transit of material through the intestine, just as laxatives do. But some of these “fiber” materials, e.g., lignin, are themselves estrogenic, and other fibers, by promoting bacterial growth, can promote the conversion of harmless substances into toxins and carcinogens. When there is a clear “antiestrogen” effect from dietary fiber, it seems to be the result of accelerated transit through the intestine, speeding elimination and preventing reabsorption of the estrogen which has been excreted in the bile. Laxatives have this same effect on the excretion of estradiol. 
Some of the isoflavones, lignins, and other phytoestrogens are said to prevent bowel cancer, but some of them, e.g., lignin, appear to sometimes increase its likelihood. 

About mushrooms, Ray said this:

Quote:Living in decaying organic matter, the mushroom mycelium is exposed to a great variety of bacteria and other fungi. Animals have to deal with a similar microbial situation in their intestines. Even though our internal exposure to microbes and their products isn't very massive, it can have fatal consequences, as explained by Metchnikoff. The success of mushrooms in dealing with their microbe-rich environment can help us to understand our own problems of "immunity," the processes involved in maintaining the integrity of our organism.


I think the idea is that mushrooms and carrot fiber can even deal with the microbe-rich environment in the gut. 

I try to keep a gut that has no microbes, other than lacto-bacillus families found in kefir. Easier said than done. So when I do have an upset in the gut, then I reach for the well-boiled mushrooms, or the carrot fiber, or the granular activated charcoal.

Perfect! Thank you! 

What's odd is that I took a Genova comprehensive stool test after I had been following 80/10/10 for two years and then again while I was Peating on mostly dairy and both times no lactobacillus bacteria were detected. 

Okay, so I'll start with the coconut kefir to inoculate my gut with some lacto bugs and see how I do. I may even try supplementing Bee with it. It seems to me it would have a positive effect on tumors, but I'll have to research more on that. 

What stinks is I had very active kefir grains back when I did WAPF but I ended up dumping them down the drain, something I felt bad doing because they were like my SCOBY babies. lol I purchased them from the seller WellsofHealth on etsy.com. I picked them because they were grown in all organic ingredients. I'll have to see if they're still on there. 

Thanks again! Smile
"One regret, my dear world, that I am determined not to have when I am lying on my deathbed is that I did not kiss you enough." ~ Hafiz
#13
(12-01-2016, 05:09 AM)tastyfood Wrote: My poop is weird when I eat mushrooms. Comes out with undigested food. I could see whole grains of rice today. Kinda nasty although it is my own poop so I don't care at all. 

Wonder if the mushrooms are having a "cleansing" effect.

Do you notice the mushrooms speed up transit time? Maybe they're pushing food through you so fast that you aren't able to digest your food completely? This may be why Ray suggests that the raw carrot salad to be eaten away from meals.

I've often wondered if this is part of the reason raw vegans living off a lot of vegetable matter, tend to be rail thin. Ray talks about a rat study where one group was given a diet of raw vegetables and the other cooked, and the ones on the cooked thrived, while the others didn't.
"One regret, my dear world, that I am determined not to have when I am lying on my deathbed is that I did not kiss you enough." ~ Hafiz
#14
I've been craving mushroom broth with herbs these past few days and it got me thinking about how Ray mentioned mushrooms having quality protein. I'm always looking for ways to heal via food, and though I myself am not concerned about getting a certain amount of protein each day, I know of others who are who have highly compromised guts and trouble digesting most protein sources other than potato juice. However, the time and energy it takes to make the potato juice broth, along with the flavor, deter many of them from making it long enough to heal.

Given those factors, I was thinking that mushroom broth may have the same quality ketoacids as potato juice and be a good substitute? It's easy to make even for the very ill and some may find its flavor more appealing. I was also thinking that the addition of coconut oil or coconut cream would help give it an anti-microbial effect. I know butter has quinones which are anti-microbial but as Ray said to me in an email, some people have a hard time digesting dairy fat so I was thinking that coconut oil may be better tolerated by the very ill? What do you guys think?
"One regret, my dear world, that I am determined not to have when I am lying on my deathbed is that I did not kiss you enough." ~ Hafiz
#15
(12-09-2016, 12:36 AM)Jennifer Wrote: I've been craving mushroom broth with herbs these past few days and it got me thinking about how Ray mentioned mushrooms having quality protein. I'm always looking for ways to heal via food, and though I myself am not concerned about getting a certain amount of protein each day, I know of others who are who have highly compromised guts and trouble digesting most protein sources other than potato juice. However, the time and energy it takes to make the potato juice broth, along with the flavor, deter many of them from making it long enough to heal.

Given those factors, I was thinking that mushroom broth may have the same quality ketoacids as potato juice and be a good substitute? It's easy to make even for the very ill and some may find its flavor more appealing. I was also thinking that the addition of coconut oil or coconut cream would help give it an anti-microbial effect. I know butter has quinones which are anti-microbial but as Ray said to me in an email, some people have a hard time digesting dairy fat so I was thinking that coconut oil may be better tolerated by the very ill? What do you guys think?

Thanks for this. I have been wanting to grow my own mushrooms in a sugar water for a while, and I think you may have inspired me to do it.

The starter mushrooms are the same ones used for making kefir. Also, these mushrooms should be eaten whole without boiling or cooking of any kind. Just like other mushrooms, they have 11 grams of protein per pound, which is more protein per pound than potatoes!

Here are some tips on how to grow them, that I'll be using:
Quote:Propagable healthy sugary kefir-grains (SKG) in appropriate ingredients increase by about 40% to 100% by weight at 48 hours [on average]. Growth is dependent on sugar concentration, temperature [optimal temperature of about 22°C or 71°F] including food source and media--including water quality. High mineral content and slightly alkaline water seems best. Little to no growth occurs for the first 24 hours fermentation at 22°C. Although up to 100% growth has been observed at higher temperatures between 25°C to 28°C. Although, individuals have observed growth rate of SKG may greatly fluctuate from batch to batch or from week to week. I have discovered that water and sugar quality has much to do with this outcome. Increase between 5% to 220% by weight at 48 hours.

The latter figure has occurred with 1 cup SKG, 1/2 cup raw sugar, 1 tsp organic blackstrap molasses, 1/8 tsp sodium bicarbonate, 1 to 2 Tbs fresh ginger root juice with 1/4 tsp oceanic coral, limestone or eggshell powder to 6.5 cups water is used for the first time, and only over proceeding one to two batches was 220% growth increase observed. Following ongoing batches, growth-rate was found to fluctuate between 100% to 200% maximum. But in a few instances I've noted 300% growth by weight in 48 hours! It is important to use the same amount of optimal ingredients each time, and to make sure that the same amount of culture is used per each batch. So, do not overcrowd SKG-- remove excess grains. Once SKG have stabilized due to using the same good ingredients as above, growth also stabilizes to 80% to 100% growth increase on average every 2 days [i.e. per batch]. If using refined white, raw or brown sugar, include 1 tsp blackstrap molasses to 1/2 cup sugar per 6 to 7 cups water works well.

[Image: orangedot.gif] Sugary kefir grains may propagate more efficiently when cultured with the addition of about 3 Tbs fresh ginger root juice added to 7-cups sugar-solution, including 1/4 tsp alkalising salt of sodium bicarbonate. This has been my observation over a 1 year period. However, there were instances of reduce growth-rate, and resting the grains in sugar/water in the fridge for 3 days, restored better growth increase on recommencing room temperature fermentation. Other individuals have reported that young coconut water increases growth rate and so does adding dry banana. However, I have yet to find the same result. Experimentation continues, and I shall report my findings here as they become available.
My avatar: William Blake, Vision of Strength
[img]http://i.imgur.com/7sD2Hod.jpg[/img]
#16
(12-09-2016, 02:02 AM)VoS Wrote:
(12-09-2016, 12:36 AM)Jennifer Wrote: I've been craving mushroom broth with herbs these past few days and it got me thinking about how Ray mentioned mushrooms having quality protein. I'm always looking for ways to heal via food, and though I myself am not concerned about getting a certain amount of protein each day, I know of others who are who have highly compromised guts and trouble digesting most protein sources other than potato juice. However, the time and energy it takes to make the potato juice broth, along with the flavor, deter many of them from making it long enough to heal.

Given those factors, I was thinking that mushroom broth may have the same quality ketoacids as potato juice and be a good substitute? It's easy to make even for the very ill and some may find its flavor more appealing. I was also thinking that the addition of coconut oil or coconut cream would help give it an anti-microbial effect. I know butter has quinones which are anti-microbial but as Ray said to me in an email, some people have a hard time digesting dairy fat so I was thinking that coconut oil may be better tolerated by the very ill? What do you guys think?

Thanks for this. I have been wanting to grow my own mushrooms in a sugar water for a while, and I think you may have inspired me to do it.

The starter mushrooms are the same ones used for making kefir. Also, these mushrooms should be eaten whole without boiling or cooking of any kind. Just like other mushrooms, they have 11 grams of protein per pound, which is more protein per pound than potatoes!

Here are some tips on how to grow them, that I'll be using:
Quote:Propagable healthy sugary kefir-grains (SKG) in appropriate ingredients increase by about 40% to 100% by weight at 48 hours [on average]. Growth is dependent on sugar concentration, temperature [optimal temperature of about 22°C or 71°F] including food source and media--including water quality. High mineral content and slightly alkaline water seems best. Little to no growth occurs for the first 24 hours fermentation at 22°C. Although up to 100% growth has been observed at higher temperatures between 25°C to 28°C. Although, individuals have observed growth rate of SKG may greatly fluctuate from batch to batch or from week to week. I have discovered that water and sugar quality has much to do with this outcome. Increase between 5% to 220% by weight at 48 hours.

The latter figure has occurred with 1 cup SKG, 1/2 cup raw sugar, 1 tsp organic blackstrap molasses, 1/8 tsp sodium bicarbonate, 1 to 2 Tbs fresh ginger root juice with 1/4 tsp oceanic coral, limestone or eggshell powder to 6.5 cups water is used for the first time, and only over proceeding one to two batches was 220% growth increase observed. Following ongoing batches, growth-rate was found to fluctuate between 100% to 200% maximum. But in a few instances I've noted 300% growth by weight in 48 hours! It is important to use the same amount of optimal ingredients each time, and to make sure that the same amount of culture is used per each batch. So, do not overcrowd SKG-- remove excess grains. Once SKG have stabilized due to using the same good ingredients as above, growth also stabilizes to 80% to 100% growth increase on average every 2 days [i.e. per batch]. If using refined white, raw or brown sugar, include 1 tsp blackstrap molasses to 1/2 cup sugar per 6 to 7 cups water works well.

[Image: orangedot.gif] Sugary kefir grains may propagate more efficiently when cultured with the addition of about 3 Tbs fresh ginger root juice added to 7-cups sugar-solution, including 1/4 tsp alkalising salt of sodium bicarbonate. This has been my observation over a 1 year period. However, there were instances of reduce growth-rate, and resting the grains in sugar/water in the fridge for 3 days, restored better growth increase on recommencing room temperature fermentation. Other individuals have reported that young coconut water increases growth rate and so does adding dry banana. However, I have yet to find the same result. Experimentation continues, and I shall report my findings here as they become available.

Ooh...very cool! You've piqued my interest. This sounds like a fun experiment worth trying. I have to laugh when I think about it, though. I currently eat a fruitarian diet, "sun" bathe naked under a light, sleep in a tent and am now contemplating growing mushrooms. Now if only my parents would of named me something like Summer Rain...
"One regret, my dear world, that I am determined not to have when I am lying on my deathbed is that I did not kiss you enough." ~ Hafiz
#17
Day 3 of my kefir mushroom growing, and they did not grow very much yet. The room temperature was cold so I'm giving them another day before changing out the sugar medium.
My avatar: William Blake, Vision of Strength
[img]http://i.imgur.com/7sD2Hod.jpg[/img]
#18
Thanks for keeping us updated. Temps were the hardest part for me to control back when I was culturing raw yogurt, mostly because I began doing it in the dead of winter and it required consistent temps around 90+ degrees. I first tried incubating my jars with a heating pad wrapped around them and when this proved unsuccessful, I decided to put them in the oven with only the oven light on and it worked perfectly. It provided just enough consistent heat to get them to culture fully.

I'm thinking we've been spoiled. The aloe babies have gone way too easy on us. Every now and then I give Spike a bit of water and a little shake to get the dust off and he's a happy boy. Easy peasy! lol
"One regret, my dear world, that I am determined not to have when I am lying on my deathbed is that I did not kiss you enough." ~ Hafiz
#19
I prefer mushrooms in the raw state while disliking the cooked state. For me, raw mushrooms seem to have a gut regulating and calming effect. 1-3 mushrooms per day is already a good dose.
#20
Day 5 of kefir mushroom growing and still only a little growth. I changed the medium, and will keep trying. 

It may take some time for the kefir mushrooms I had been using in dairy to switch over to using sugar instead of dairy. In the meanwhile, I will look around for tibetan kefir mushrooms, that have been raised on sugar water all along.
My avatar: William Blake, Vision of Strength
[img]http://i.imgur.com/7sD2Hod.jpg[/img]
  


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