Ray Peat says ice cream can make you fat
#11
Who thinks unlimited anything is good for you? What does unlimited mean anyway?

Prolonged glycogen is one of the main causes of visceral fat (next to over consumption of PUFA). If there is anything to take away from this incessant war on these two macros (fat and carbs), it's that we should not overdo anything. James_IV over at RPF mentioned the concept of "over nutrition" and I think he is right.

The right amount of calories per macro (the "ideal" ratio being carbs>fats>protein) for a day is crucial. Filtering out one over the other is just another way to obsess about something which leads to stress.

LCHF and LFHC are just diet-identities that promote stress.
#12
(11-26-2016, 09:26 PM)halken Wrote: Who thinks unlimited anything is good for you? What does unlimited mean anyway?

Prolonged glycogen is one of the main causes of visceral fat (next to over consumption of PUFA). If there is anything to take away from this incessant war on these two macros (fat and carbs), it's that we should not overdo anything. James_IV over at RPF mentioned the concept of "over nutrition" and I think he is right.

The right amount of calories per macro (the "ideal" ratio being carbs>fats>protein) for a day is crucial. Filtering out one over the other is just another way to obsess about something which leads to stress.

LCHF and LFHC are just diet-identities that promote stress.

You may remember Westy from peatarian.  

I wonder where the other peatarians have gone? Bukowski? DeWitt? and probably everybody's favorite, Kasra? 

Remember this one: 

Is IslandGirl really a troll? Or a seeker of truth? [poll]
My avatar: William Blake, Vision of Strength
[img]http://i.imgur.com/7sD2Hod.jpg[/img]
#13
(11-26-2016, 09:26 PM)halken Wrote: Who thinks unlimited anything is good for you? What does unlimited mean anyway?

Prolonged glycogen is one of the main causes of visceral fat (next to over consumption of PUFA). If there is anything to take away from this incessant war on these two macros (fat and carbs), it's that we should not overdo anything. James_IV over at RPF mentioned the concept of "over nutrition" and I think he is right.

The right amount of calories per macro (the "ideal" ratio being carbs>fats>protein) for a day is crucial. Filtering out one over the other is just another way to obsess about something which leads to stress.

LCHF and LFHC are just diet-identities that promote stress.

Do you have evidence for prolonged glycogen being a "main causes of visceral fat"? Never heard that before. I am not sure but I think that the Transformation of carbs into fat starts when you eat more carbs than you can safe, and this could be a LOT of carbs if u have a good liver or some big muscles.


LCHF probably promotes stress in a short or long way. But I doubt if LFHC is really that stressful.

In that old extremely low fat diet study on a human subject it improved the health, increased the metabolic rate and lowered the amount of bodyfat of the test person.

The Kitava lives very healthy on a nearly vegan diet that is very high on carbohydrates wirth about 70% of calories and only a bit of fat from from coconut and fish.

Even Peat said to me some years ago that a pure fruit diet might be ideal when we had more knowledge of the advantages of different fruits.


I dont know what James have said about "over nutrition" but eating more increases the metabolic rate and I dont see any problem with that as long as you keep an eye on your fat intake. I get the feeling that some people loves to act cleverer than peat is but I have rarely seen a case in which that would be justified. Peat says you need a good thyroid to utilize your food efficiently and that he used to eat thousands of calories when he was young and had a bad tyhroid function.


Quote: I wonder where the other peatarians have gone? Bukowski? DeWitt? and probably everybody's favorite, Kasra?

Bukowski should know about this forum, we will see if he wants to participate. Dont know about the other ones but I would love to have the good old cliff here, maybe I will ask him to join us but probably he spends his time rather into sex, drugs and rock'n'roll.
"Ray Peat says ice cream can make you fat." - Westside PUFAs
#14
(11-26-2016, 10:43 PM)VoS Wrote: You may remember Westy from peatarian.  

I wonder where the other peatarians have gone? Bukowski? DeWitt? and probably everybody's favorite, Kasra? 

Remember this one: 

Is IslandGirl really a troll? Or a seeker of truth? [poll]

I talk to IslandGirl often.
#15
Quote:LCHF probably promotes stress in a short or long way. But I doubt if LFHC is really that stressful.


They both do.

Quote:The Kitava lives very healthy on a nearly vegan diet that is very high on carbohydrates wirth about 70% of calories and only a bit of fat from from coconut and fish.

Great. I love how these observations trim the fat off why said community is healthy in the first place.

Quote:I dont know what James have said about "over nutrition" but eating more increases the metabolic rate and I dont see any problem with that as long as you keep an eye on your fat intake.

Here you go:

"Majority of health issues are likely caused by over nutrition. Digestion and assimilation are incredibly energy intensive, and inhibit the bodies natural
cellular "recycling" processes. The notion we need to constantly feed to maintain our energy/blood sugar/whatever, is hogwash. There is a reason we have such large livers, it's aN incredible fuel tank for maintaining proper energy ratios in the bloodstream. For metabolically healthy people, the liver and body fat can provide plenty of clean energy. We are (should be) perfectly capable of going many hours, even days, without food. If you need to constantly eat to maintain your energy levels, you are broken. If fat was harmful to our metabolism, it certainly wouldn't make sense to have it be our primary storage form of energy.

Humans (industrialized) eat more and move less than ever. If you are sedentary, you will not be at optimal health, regardless of your diet. As the old saying goes 1/3 of what you eat is for you, 2/3 is for your doctor.
People should likely be eating less often, not more. 3 meals a day is an invention of bored aristocrats. More than that an invention of supplement industry.
Your energy and clarity should be highest when you are in a fasted state. Feeding should be used to stimulate relaxation and repair."

- James IV


Quote:I get the feeling that some people loves to act cleverer than peat is but I have rarely seen a case in which that would be justified. Peat says you need a good thyroid to utilize your food efficiently and that he used to eat thousands of calories when he was young and had a bad tyhroid function.


Oh I hear ya man. That was pretty much the Ray Peat Forum to a tee. Let's hope this forum does not follow that path here. It would be nice to get a Peatarian vibe going on here where people are freely able to express their views and experiences without having to get the "OK" by the Peat martyrdom.
#16
(11-27-2016, 11:51 AM)Westside PUFAs Wrote:
(11-26-2016, 10:43 PM)VoS Wrote: You may remember Westy from peatarian.  

I wonder where the other peatarians have gone? Bukowski? DeWitt? and probably everybody's favorite, Kasra? 

Remember this one: 

Is IslandGirl really a troll? Or a seeker of truth? [poll]

I talk to IslandGirl often.

I voted seeker of truth, myself.
My avatar: William Blake, Vision of Strength
[img]http://i.imgur.com/7sD2Hod.jpg[/img]
#17
(11-27-2016, 01:42 PM)halken Wrote:
Quote:I dont know what James have said about "over nutrition" but eating more increases the metabolic rate and I dont see any problem with that as long as you keep an eye on your fat intake.

Here you go:

"Majority of health issues are likely caused by over nutrition. Digestion and assimilation are incredibly energy intensive, and inhibit the bodies natural
cellular "recycling" processes. The notion we need to constantly feed to maintain our energy/blood sugar/whatever, is hogwash. There is a reason we have such large livers, it's aN incredible fuel tank for maintaining proper energy ratios in the bloodstream. For metabolically healthy people, the liver and body fat can provide plenty of clean energy. We are (should be) perfectly capable of going many hours, even days, without food. If you need to constantly eat to maintain your energy levels, you are broken. If fat was harmful to our metabolism, it certainly wouldn't make sense to have it be our primary storage form of energy.

Humans (industrialized) eat more and move less than ever. If you are sedentary, you will not be at optimal health, regardless of your diet. As the old saying goes 1/3 of what you eat is for you, 2/3 is for your doctor.
People should likely be eating less often, not more. 3 meals a day is an invention of bored aristocrats. More than that an invention of supplement industry.
Your energy and clarity should be highest when you are in a fasted state. Feeding should be used to stimulate relaxation and repair."

- James IV

It's true that digestion of all but a few foods (but not all) increases my heart and breathing rate, sometimes for several hours. Meat, indigestible fiber, long chain fats have this effect on me. I take it this indicates a large energy expenditure during digestion.

But I also observe that my heart and breathing rate stays about the same when I eat small amounts of ketones (MCT), low-fat kefir, collagen, and sugar or pulp-free juice. These foods seem to be very quickly digested, without nearly as much energy expenditure, in ten minutes or so.

I think of "diet" the same way one might feed a newborn. The goal is simple and easy to observe. The "diet" should be easy to digest, and passing quickly through the digestive tract without irritability, and the digesta should be odor-free.
My avatar: William Blake, Vision of Strength
[img]http://i.imgur.com/7sD2Hod.jpg[/img]
#18
(11-28-2016, 07:12 AM)VoS Wrote:
(11-27-2016, 01:42 PM)halken Wrote:
Quote:I dont know what James have said about "over nutrition" but eating more increases the metabolic rate and I dont see any problem with that as long as you keep an eye on your fat intake.

Here you go:

"Majority of health issues are likely caused by over nutrition. Digestion and assimilation are incredibly energy intensive, and inhibit the bodies natural
cellular "recycling" processes. The notion we need to constantly feed to maintain our energy/blood sugar/whatever, is hogwash. There is a reason we have such large livers, it's aN incredible fuel tank for maintaining proper energy ratios in the bloodstream. For metabolically healthy people, the liver and body fat can provide plenty of clean energy. We are (should be) perfectly capable of going many hours, even days, without food. If you need to constantly eat to maintain your energy levels, you are broken. If fat was harmful to our metabolism, it certainly wouldn't make sense to have it be our primary storage form of energy.

Humans (industrialized) eat more and move less than ever. If you are sedentary, you will not be at optimal health, regardless of your diet. As the old saying goes 1/3 of what you eat is for you, 2/3 is for your doctor.
People should likely be eating less often, not more. 3 meals a day is an invention of bored aristocrats. More than that an invention of supplement industry.
Your energy and clarity should be highest when you are in a fasted state. Feeding should be used to stimulate relaxation and repair."

- James IV

It's true that digestion of all but a few foods (but not all) increases my heart and breathing rate, sometimes for several hours. Meat, indigestible fiber, long chain fats have this effect on me. I take it this indicates a large energy expenditure during digestion.

But I also observe that my heart and breathing rate stays about the same when I eat small amounts of ketones (MCT), low-fat kefir, collagen, and sugar or pulp-free juice. These foods seem to be very quickly digested, without nearly as much energy expenditure, in ten minutes or so.

I think of "diet" the same way one might feed a newborn. The goal is simple and easy to observe. The "diet" should be easy to digest, and passing quickly through the digestive tract without irritability, and the digesta should be odor-free.

Coffee (even just a sip of it) increases my heart and breath rate. Should I assume that it is bad?
#19
(11-28-2016, 10:41 AM)Arborescence Wrote:
(11-28-2016, 07:12 AM)VoS Wrote:
(11-27-2016, 01:42 PM)halken Wrote:
Quote:I dont know what James have said about "over nutrition" but eating more increases the metabolic rate and I dont see any problem with that as long as you keep an eye on your fat intake.

Here you go:

"Majority of health issues are likely caused by over nutrition. Digestion and assimilation are incredibly energy intensive, and inhibit the bodies natural
cellular "recycling" processes. The notion we need to constantly feed to maintain our energy/blood sugar/whatever, is hogwash. There is a reason we have such large livers, it's aN incredible fuel tank for maintaining proper energy ratios in the bloodstream. For metabolically healthy people, the liver and body fat can provide plenty of clean energy. We are (should be) perfectly capable of going many hours, even days, without food. If you need to constantly eat to maintain your energy levels, you are broken. If fat was harmful to our metabolism, it certainly wouldn't make sense to have it be our primary storage form of energy.

Humans (industrialized) eat more and move less than ever. If you are sedentary, you will not be at optimal health, regardless of your diet. As the old saying goes 1/3 of what you eat is for you, 2/3 is for your doctor.
People should likely be eating less often, not more. 3 meals a day is an invention of bored aristocrats. More than that an invention of supplement industry.
Your energy and clarity should be highest when you are in a fasted state. Feeding should be used to stimulate relaxation and repair."

- James IV

It's true that digestion of all but a few foods (but not all) increases my heart and breathing rate, sometimes for several hours. Meat, indigestible fiber, long chain fats have this effect on me. I take it this indicates a large energy expenditure during digestion.

But I also observe that my heart and breathing rate stays about the same when I eat small amounts of ketones (MCT), low-fat kefir, collagen, and sugar or pulp-free juice. These foods seem to be very quickly digested, without nearly as much energy expenditure, in ten minutes or so.

I think of "diet" the same way one might feed a newborn. The goal is simple and easy to observe. The "diet" should be easy to digest, and passing quickly through the digestive tract without irritability, and the digesta should be odor-free.

Coffee (even just a sip of it) increases my heart and breath rate. Should I assume that it is bad?

For me when something increases heart and breathing rate, it could be a stressful increase in lactates or cortisol, or it could be an increase in generated CO2 from exertion, such as when walking or running or digesting food. Or it could be both.

How do you measure your breathing rate? For me, I count the number of seconds after exhaling before I feel the urge to breathe. When I have periods of stress, there is a shorter time before I feel the urge to breathe.

Does your blood sugar feel low when you sip the coffee? Are you craving salt? I find heart rate can be increased by cortisol and stress if the blood sugar is low, or if I am low on salt. Coffee with lots of sugar or sugar syrup (and even a pinch of salt) is less likely to be stressful for me than strong black coffee.

I also try to have about a tablespoon of salt very gradually over the course of the day to mitigate stress, along with (as I've posted elsewhere) plenty of ketones from MCT.
My avatar: William Blake, Vision of Strength
[img]http://i.imgur.com/7sD2Hod.jpg[/img]
#20
[quote pid='864' dateline='1480247504']
Westside PUFAs Wrote:
(11-26-2016, 10:43 PM)VoS Wrote: You may remember Westy from peatarian.  

I wonder where the other peatarians have gone? Bukowski? DeWitt? and probably everybody's favorite, Kasra? 

Remember this one: 

Is IslandGirl really a troll? Or a seeker of truth? [poll]

I talk to IslandGirl often.

Get her over here for Peat's sake!
  


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