My Theory on Digestion
#11
(11-26-2016, 07:43 AM)Panda Wrote: Sea, how long did you take the DMSO before noticing the symptoms?

I started taking Tyromax (with no prior Thyroid ever before), and initially it was good, but after some time I started to notice some symptoms, like my pulse, was on the 50's, when usually it was on the 60's before starting the Tyromax.
So, I stopped it. And my pulse came back up.
Then I bought the Tyromix, and again it was great at the beginning, but as with the Tyromax, again, after some months I started to have noticeable hypothyroid symptoms, like 50's pulse once again.

This parallels my experiences, viz., excellent results at first, followed by a dissapation of response.
[color=#222222][size=medium]"I have no religion, no political affiliation: I believe in me, above everything else." -Chasing Good & Evil[/size][/color]
#12
Wow, very interesting, thank you so much for sharing.   [Image: smile.png] 

-- Is your digestion back to normal now ? 

--You make some very good points. So basically you’d recommend a white rice + concentrated juices/OJ + low fat + lean meats diet for impaired digestion ? 

--Would the carrot salad be likely to help with such a diet ? Has it helped you in any way, in the past ? 
Also, would you include charcoal and coffee in this "recovery program". 


By the way, how did you manage to eat  4500 calories a day on milk and concentrated juice ? 
#13
Interesting Sea. Doesn't the activated charcoal constipate you? For me it does, that's why I just keep it for when I feel really poisoned.

I have posted some studies here, because I think Ray is really giving wrong informations about the gut and digestion http://raypeatforums.org/showthread.php?tid=80 and I don't think that this habit of taking antibiotics is a healthy one (antibiotics destroyed my life since birth and most of my autistic symptoms come from that, I know it now). I also think that the casein in milk might make the peristaltism slower which can be problematic for some (and probably other problems, for example lactose is quite hard to digest as well and can be bad with dysbiosis). I think that Peat strange voice comes from his damaged gut (maybe a silent reflux damaging is vocal folds?).

I'm starting to think more and more like Westside Pufa, that is to say that we are meant to eat a lot of fibers (digestible and undigestible) and that if we cannot eat it, it means that we may a dysbiosis that is too strong to be resolved by itself, that we may have a weak peristaltism and probably a leaky gut that lets all kind of toxins flow into the blood (persporption of starch anyone?). Traditional cultures eat a lot of fibers and starches and are very healthy, it doesn't make sense anymore to me to say that starches and fibers are bad when some people can really thrive on it and be very healthy just because others become sick after eating it.

I still have issues with my digestion, but taking probiotics (D-lactate and histamine producing bacteria free) has been really more anti-inflammatory to me than any kind of aspirin and quinones that I've tried, and I don't feel cold anymore like I used too (even while taking thyroid, coffee, etc). I can start to digest a bit better more diverse foods (very little though).

I respect every other Ray's ideas but I think he gives bad informations on the gut, my health is really improving by lowering sucrose/fructose (harder to digest than it seems, it's not a monosaccharide and requires enzymes, etc) and eating dextrose instead of it. I still have a long way to go though to fix my long time fucked up gut. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23783298

There are a lot of informations about the problems of too much refined food http://www.pnas.org/content/107/33/14691

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3402009/

I will try probiotics enema soon to see if it improves my condition, but I will experimenting with a lot of other things regarding my gut, at least now I know how to keep improving myself and I am not stagnating in other people dogmas.
In the end, I'm still thinking about FMT if I become too desperate. I hope that I will be able to digest and at last regenerate my body (veins and joints) and get rid off the inflammation completely.

Oh, about DMSO, it seems to increase acetylcholine which stimulates the vagus nerve right?
I've noticed something strange for me, everytime I take something that increases bile production and/or vagus nerve because it seems to go hand in hand (coffee, fat, etc), I will get a lot of symptoms like stomach cramps, dyspnea, cold hands (panic attack/hypothyroidism?), anxiety, and crusty dandruff some days after and inflammation.
I wonder if that is because I have bile malabsorption that irritates my gut (and/or make it leaky), and/or because bile will feed some bad bacteria... I remember that fat in the diet increases absorption of endotoxins in the gut (icecream anyone?).
Anyways, I think I am on to something here.
#14
(11-27-2016, 12:34 AM)Arborescence Wrote: Interesting Sea. Doesn't the activated charcoal constipate you? For me it does, that's why I just keep it for when I feel really poisoned.

I have posted some studies here, because I think Ray is really giving wrong informations about the gut and digestion http://raypeatforums.org/showthread.php?tid=80 and I don't think that this habit of taking antibiotics is a healthy one (antibiotics destroyed my life since birth and most of my autistic symptoms come from that, I know it now). I also think that the casein in milk might make the peristaltism slower which can be problematic for some (and probably other problems, for example lactose is quite hard to digest as well and can be bad with dysbiosis). I think that Peat strange voice comes from his damaged gut (maybe a silent reflux damaging is vocal folds?).

I'm starting to think more and more like Westside Pufa, that is to say that we are meant to eat a lot of fibers (digestible and undigestible) and that if we cannot eat it, it means that we may a dysbiosis that is too strong to be resolved by itself, that we may have a weak peristaltism and probably a leaky gut that lets all kind of toxins flow into the blood (persporption of starch anyone?). Traditional cultures eat a lot of fibers and starches and are very healthy, it doesn't make sense anymore to me to say that starches and fibers are bad when some people can really thrive on it and be very healthy just because others become sick after eating it.

I still have issues with my digestion, but taking probiotics (D-lactate and histamine producing bacteria free) has been really more anti-inflammatory to me than any kind of aspirin and quinones that I've tried, and I don't feel cold anymore like I used too (even while taking thyroid, coffee, etc). I can start to digest a bit better more diverse foods (very little though).

I respect every other Ray's ideas but I think he gives bad informations on the gut, my health is really improving by lowering sucrose/fructose (harder to digest than it seems, it's not a monosaccharide and requires enzymes, etc) and eating dextrose instead of it. I still have a long way to go though to fix my long time fucked up gut. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23783298

There are a lot of informations about the problems of too much refined food http://www.pnas.org/content/107/33/14691

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3402009/

I will try probiotics enema soon to see if it improves my condition, but I will experimenting with a lot of other things regarding my gut, at least now I know how to keep improving myself and I am not stagnating in other people dogmas.
In the end, I'm still thinking about FMT if I become too desperate. I hope that I will be able to digest and at last regenerate my body (veins and joints) and get rid off the inflammation completely.

Oh, about DMSO, it seems to increase acetylcholine which stimulates the vagus nerve right?
I've noticed something strange for me, everytime I take something that increases bile production and/or vagus nerve because it seems to go hand in hand (coffee, fat, etc), I will get a lot of symptoms like stomach cramps, dyspnea, cold hands (panic attack/hypothyroidism?), anxiety, and crusty dandruff some days after and inflammation.
I wonder if that is because I have bile malabsorption that irritates my gut (and/or make it leaky), and/or because bile will feed some bad bacteria... I remember that fat in the diet increases absorption of endotoxins in the gut (icecream anyone?).
Anyways, I think I am on to something here.
From what I can tell, Ray Peat does not write about the gut, because there is too little actually known. I think he's said more research is needed. What he has written comes from the work of Elie Metchnikoff in the late 1800s. 

I would take Ray Peat at his word, when he says too little is known. I think tooo little is known. Those who claim otherwise should be closely scrutinized to see if they are making some commercial claim for a product, such as fake "probiotics" or other absurdly expensive, low quality scam to steal from consumers.

One way to tell how healthy your own gut is to lie down on your back and feel your lower belly for bloating. If your lower belly puckers up or feels hard, then you are likely to have inflammation of some sort, and possibly visceral fat. 

To rid yourself of the inflammation, just examine your belly regularly after eating to see if the inflammation is better or worse. You can also observe the digesta as it's eliminated for putrefaction. 

You might start out with a very simple diet so that you can see if this makes the inflammation and putrefaction better. As you add foods and experiment, you might see for yourself what causes the inflammation in the belly or the putrefaction. 

Ray Peat has observed that typically (but not in all cases) starch leads to inflammation of the gut. So have I. But this is not a dogmatic approach. It's an observation. Your observation of yourself may be different. 

As for antibiotics, I think Ray Peat has said that long term use of antibiotics could cause a toxic overload. I've not seen an email of his suggesting antibiotics other than in a small dose (100 mg) and for a very short time. 

The natural "antibiotics" he talks about are coffee, aspirin and the quinones (from vitamin K2, cascara, bitter aloe or pau d'arco).


I find that if I ever have a cut or infection that DMSO with 30% urea is a very powerful antibiotic. I find that, when applied frequently to a wound, it prevents scarring from infection and allows smooth regeneration of skin cells. 

But anyone can easily overdose on it, so please be careful.


Peace.
VoS
My avatar: William Blake, Vision of Strength
[img]http://i.imgur.com/7sD2Hod.jpg[/img]
#15
I think that Metchnikoff is a bit old fashioned (there have been good research since his time) and I've never seen Ray really recommending his ideas (kefir or yogourth) even if he talked a bit about lactobacillus being anti-inflammatory, he died at a fairly young age (71) by the way.

I really like and respect Ray, but I think he can be reductionist, stubborn and sometimes simplistic in his views about the organism, and lack cautiousness and nuance in some of his claims, making him sound (and I don't think it's his intention) as if he holds absolute truth about everything, while biology is something extremely complex with a lot of unknown variables and that we still need to understand further.

I believe that he is wrong about the gut, and that maybe he is too much of a contrarian, rejecting almost everything that is not done by alternative or old scientists from his time or before, probably as a stress response against authoritarism and the establishment (which is also positive as it makes him come up with unique and very interesting ideas, but maybe extremism as well), in my opinion, everything in the research that came and is coming lately is not to throw away.

And all of this is maybe why a lot of people trying to improve their health with his ideas improved themselves but reached a plateau without being able to go further. They don't have all his huge knowledge and are tired and desperate and will listen to him as if he has absolute knowledge. People that like him will also fight for his ideas as if it is a religion. I don't care about it but just about truth and improving my health personally and that's why I'm happy that such a forum exists, I hope we will keep evolving and finding even better ways to heal ourselves and improve our lives, taking Ray's ideas as a basis and without authoritarian jackasses and psychorigid people around the corner.
#16
(11-30-2016, 03:26 AM)Arborescence Wrote: I think that Metchnikoff is a bit old fashioned (there have been good research since his time) and I've never seen Ray really recommending his ideas (kefir or yogourth) even if he talked a bit about lactobacillus being anti-inflammatory, he died at a fairly young age (71) by the way.

I really like and respect Ray, but I think he can be reductionist, stubborn and sometimes simplistic in his views about the organism, and lack cautiousness and nuance in some of his claims, making him sound (and I don't think it's his intention) as if he holds absolute truth about everything, while biology is something extremely complex with a lot of unknown variables and that we still need to understand further.

I believe that he is wrong about the gut, and that maybe he is too much of a contrarian, rejecting almost everything that is not done by alternative or old scientists from his time or before, probably as a stress response against authoritarism and the establishment (which is also positive as it makes him come up with unique and very interesting ideas, but maybe extremism as well), in my opinion, everything in the research that came and is coming lately is not to throw away.

And all of this is maybe why a lot of people trying to improve their health with his ideas improved themselves but reached a plateau without being able to go further. They don't have all his huge knowledge and are tired and desperate and will listen to him as if he has absolute knowledge. People that like him will also fight for his ideas as if it is a religion. I don't care about it but just about truth and improving my health personally and that's why I'm happy that such a forum exists, I hope we will keep evolving and finding even better ways to heal ourselves and improve our lives, taking Ray's ideas as a basis and without authoritarian jackasses and psychorigid people around the corner.
But what has Ray said about the gut in his articles or books that you have in mind? 

There are only a few references to the gut on his website:
https://www.google.com/webhp?q=site:raypeat.com+gut

There are more references to the intestine, but nothing that seems like a "claim":
https://www.google.com/webhp?q=site:rayp...+intestine

There are no references at all to "pro-biotics" or "microbiome". He's not made any claims at all about those, good or bad:
https://www.google.com/webhp?q=site:rayp...ro-biotics
https://www.google.com/webhp?q=site:rayp...microbiome

I'm the only one who thinks fake experts talk about pro-biotics and microbiome to steal money from consumers. 

But don't blame Ray for that, I said it.
My avatar: William Blake, Vision of Strength
[img]http://i.imgur.com/7sD2Hod.jpg[/img]
#17
I agree with you that the problem is not really Peat but how they distorted his views on the RPF about the gut (I remember for example that charlie was "eating" a liquid diet).

But still, I've heard Peat saying in videos that it's better to have a germ-free gut or trying to go close to it.
I've already posted studies showing that germ-free animals are not healthy. I've also posted studies about the problems of having less bacteria and less diverse microbiota (antibiotics and starving the bacteria of fibers), and also the problems of fructose and sucrose feeding pathogenic bacteria a lot. I've seen a lot of "Peatarians" having big time gut issues or symptoms that come from the gut without them noticing it and I think it is the deadspot in this community. I've improved my inflammation a lot just by taking probiotics, and I've not tested a lot of things that I want to test. Stopping enemas has also really helped me.

Peat also advises the use of antibiotics and gives in my opinion bad informations about fibers use and starch, but I still need to experiment and research a lot on all this.
#18
(11-26-2016, 07:43 AM)Panda Wrote: Sea, how long did you take the DMSO before noticing the symptoms?

I started taking Tyromax (with no prior Thyroid ever before), and initially it was good, but after some time I started to notice some symptoms, like my pulse, was on the 50's, when usually it was on the 60's before starting the Tyromax.
So, I stopped it. And my pulse came back up.
Then I bought the Tyromix, and again it was great at the beginning, but as with the Tyromax, again, after some months I started to have noticeable hypothyroid symptoms, like 50's pulse once again.

In hindsight, I think very minor symptoms like slight dandruff were aparent within the first 1-2 weeks. Initially, I didn't use the supplements daily. When I started using Tyromax multiple times/day to split up the dosage, serious side effects began to emerge. I also noticed a reduced pulse rate from the DMSO supplements that I tried.
"The true method of knowledge is experiment." -William Blake
#19
(11-26-2016, 02:30 PM)cruisecontrol Wrote: Wow, very interesting, thank you so much for sharing.   [Image: smile.png] 

-- Is your digestion back to normal now ? 

--You make some very good points. So basically you’d recommend a white rice + concentrated juices/OJ + low fat + lean meats diet for impaired digestion ? 

--Would the carrot salad be likely to help with such a diet ? Has it helped you in any way, in the past ? 
Also, would you include charcoal and coffee in this "recovery program". 


By the way, how did you manage to eat  4500 calories a day on milk and concentrated juice ? 

My digestion is back to normal now. I think diet depends on what foods you can tolerate well which should always be increasing. In my experience, with really weak digestion; liquid, fat, and starch can pose difficulties. I think a good way to gauge optimal food choice is by the amount of calories you can consume before a food inhibits appetite. I think the more optimal a food is for your digestive capabilities, the more calories you will be able to consume before feeling full. I think it can also help to pay attention to symptoms in the hours after eating a food like tooth sensitivity, headache, irritability, runny nose, brain fog, anxiety, and other symptoms of serotonin and histamine. I think aspirin, thyroid, and tolerable amounts of caffeine can boost digestion in the short term. I never properly prepared a carrot salad and prefer to use activated charcoal since I always found it more effective and easier to prepare than fibers. I think 2-3 TBS of activated charcoal 30 minutes to an hour before eating can drastically improve digestive capabilities in the short term.

I think that in terms of a program to restore digestion it's important to have lots of calories(energy surplus), something to detox the liver(caffeine, thyroid, or potentially excess protein helps somewhat), something to help excrete released toxins(activated charcoal, tolerable fibers, laxative, ect), adequate vitamin A to make hormones(supplement, or liver as I don't think full fat dairy has enough to restore deficiency quickly enough(judge by how you feel after taking it, I think if it is benefiting you, you will feel a relaxation effect from it)). Based on my experience, I think these things are the most important.

The concentrated juice I use has 720calories/11oz and with good digestion it's very easy to eat 4 of those and 3 quarts of milk in a day which brings me to around 4300 calories, although usually my diet is a lot more varied than that, but concentrated juice and dairy are still my main sources of carbs/protein.
"The true method of knowledge is experiment." -William Blake
#20
Interesting thoughts. I'm considering doing the PUFA depletion diet as PUFA seem to be one of the things many agree is negative for health. I'm curious what kind of food can you eat now? Hpw did you manage to know what kind of food you could add? Just experimenting and checking how you reacted?
  


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