Broda Barnes and Jan Kwasniewski
#11
Peat has mentioned several times that 2 qts of milk(low fat) and a qt of orange juice is a good starting point. From there he suggests coffee liver shellfish and a carrot salad. Basically choose foods with no pufa, no starch and limited muscle meats. I could answer and say there is no peat diet but that's pretty much what I've heard him say many times.
#12
(11-19-2016, 09:55 PM)Dizzryda Wrote: VoS maybe you can clear this up for me. If I understand it right Ray's model is to use sugar as fuel rather than fat. Then what is the purpose of saturated fat? Is it not a fuel too? I know he says some fat is necessary for soluble vitamins, but other than that isn't it primarily an energy source?

Right, in 1993, Ray Peat was among the first to recognize Veech's work and confirm that nutritional ketones are an ideal fuel source, which come from things like coconut oil, or its extract, MCT oil. Ketones are oxidized with no ROS at all. Ray dedicated an entire newsletter to coconut oil very early on.

Long chain fats are more controversial. It's not clear whether they are oxidized in ways that could do more harm than good, depending on the redox balance of the cell. But it's just not clear, and that doesn't mean Ray has taken a position one way or the other. 

I think Ray says he gets about a third of his calories from fat, but he's also said we don't have enough knowledge of what the balance of fats/carbs/protein should be, and under what circumstances.
#13
(11-20-2016, 12:12 AM)Dizzryda Wrote: Peat has mentioned several times that 2 qts of milk(low fat) and a qt of orange juice is a good starting point. From there he suggests coffee liver shellfish and a carrot salad. Basically choose foods with no pufa, no starch and limited muscle meats. I could answer and say there is no peat diet but that's pretty much what I've heard him say many times.

Well, yes, he does frequently give that answer in interviews for people who say they want a safe way to lose weight. I take it he means that from milk and juice you can safely get the minimum nutrients you need, and it's not too hard or too expensive to get good quality milk and juice, and he has seen people lose quite a bit of weight on that diet.  

But Ray's also said that several tablespoons of coconut oil a day made him lose about 20 pounds, by greatly increasing his metabolic rate.

And he almost always says that he himself eats a varied diet with about a third of his calories from fat.  It really just does depend on the context of the person's own redox balance, or CO2 level, and there are truly countless ways to find the good food you need.
#14
Coconut oil is great due to it having the highest SFA content (semi-refined is the best).
Fructose is king for testosterone which is what kings are made of. Anything that can supply energy concentration from the liver to the gonads that then reinforces metaphysical energy to the brain (which is where the phrase "grow some balls" came from) is essential to longevity.
Glucose is great if it is binded to foods high in amylopectin aka waxy starches.
Lactose is great if binded to lactic acid followed with SFA aka anything fermented dairy.
Protein is a bit of a wild card, still unsure about it though I do believe it is the one macro that shares its importance within the body by it being synthesized endogenously from the other macros.
Avoid lunch but have big breakfasts and small dinners.
Eating: chew your drink and drink your food. Let the saliva infuse itself with the food so your stomach can digest proficiently (one of the major problems with the obesity epidemic). 
Learn to savor the art of food by eating it with gratitude.
Fast one day a week.
Continence above masturbation as masturbation is vitality-suicide.
Sleep at 10pm - 11pm most nights.
Lose weight slowly.
All this energy must be exerted with a purpose i. e. art. Go create something and be sure to live life like a nomad that invites exploration and curiosity:
One life spent best is worth a thousand lives spent poorly.
Purpose is the heart of having a story. To have a heart is to be alive, so go live a life worth telling so that someone else can do likewise and so forth.
#15
(11-20-2016, 05:34 AM)halken Wrote: Coconut oil is great due to it having the highest SFA content (semi-refined is the best).
Fructose is king for testosterone which is what kings are made of. Anything that can supply energy concentration from the liver to the gonads that then reinforces metaphysical energy to the brain (which is where the phrase "grow some balls" came from) is essential to longevity.
Glucose is great if it is binded to foods high in amylopectin aka waxy starches.
Lactose is great if binded to lactic acid followed with SFA aka anything fermented dairy.
Protein is a bit of a wild card, still unsure about it though I do believe it is the one macro that shares its importance within the body by it being synthesized endogenously from the other macros.
Avoid lunch but have big breakfasts and small dinners.
Eating: chew your drink and drink your food. Let the saliva infuse itself with the food so your stomach can digest proficiently (one of the major problems with the obesity epidemic). 
Learn to savor the art of food by eating it with gratitude.
Fast one day a week.
Continence above masturbation as masturbation is vitality-suicide.
Sleep at 10pm - 11pm most nights.
Lose weight slowly.
All this energy must be exerted with a purpose i. e. art. Go create something and be sure to live life like a nomad that invites exploration and curiosity:
One life spent best is worth a thousand lives spent poorly.
Purpose is the heart of having a story. To have a heart is to be alive, so go live a life worth telling so that someone else can do likewise and so forth.
Thank you for this. I had to check twice to see if I was the one who had posted this, it seemed so familiar. Glad to see it is you. 

Peace.
#16
(11-19-2016, 07:50 PM)Dizzryda Wrote: Whenever I feel stressed I can always count on ice cream to counter it. But fructose alone and especially regular sugar alone or with protein but no fat would always cause stress. That led me to believe that maybe there is some truth to sugar feeding intestinal bacteria and maybe saturated fat is better for my gut. I know ray suggests adding coconut oil to the daily carrot salad. Interestingly I don't feel the usual jitters with a high sat fat as opposed to before when I felt horrible cutting carbs. Maybe like you said this can be a short term fix.  

A differing concept with Kwasniewski is that he believes one should not mix fuels which are fats and carbohydrates. In other words you should have your protein with fats(best) only or with carbohydrates by not both at the same time. He claims this causes all kinds of problems. I would love to hear him and Ray discuss this.

Yeah, when I eat meat I always assume the fat in that meat is sufficient for the processing of the protein. I remember reading this thread by Amazoniac https://raypeatforum.com/community/threa...840.12824/
The book discussed in that thread is called "The Physiology of Digestion" and if I recall correctly, it talks about the issues of digesting sugar with meat. Sugar with a liquid protein is perhaps better (like milk for example) but yeah I would definitely experiment to see which fits you better. For me, meat and it's fat works excellently for satiety and my energy levels which is then followed up by easily digestible fruit maybe 45 minutes later but never at the same time to avoid fermentation/gut irritation.
#17
(11-20-2016, 12:12 AM)Dizzryda Wrote: Peat has mentioned several times that 2 qts of milk(low fat) and a qt of orange juice is a good starting point. From there he suggests coffee liver shellfish and a carrot salad. Basically choose foods with no pufa, no starch and limited muscle meats. I could answer and say there is no peat diet but that's pretty much what I've heard him say many times.

Are you squeezing the oranges themselves? I haven't seen store-bought orange juice that can be compared with actual ripe oranges.
#18
(11-19-2016, 09:05 PM)VoS Wrote:
(11-19-2016, 07:00 PM)G-Signal Wrote: I think following extremes (lchf/hclf) are therapeutic short term for most people but it isn't ideal to follow long term unless you can actually handle those extremes. I know a lot of people that have been "Paleo" and hclf, they all ended up simply listening to their bodies and cravings to find what works for them. Ultimately avoid PUFA and irritating foods, eat high quality proteins and workout how much saturated fat and carbs are ideal for you.

Yes, and for me irritating foods include a lot of starch that breaks down to glucose only, and into the starch particles that can escape the gut and invade the bloodstream, blocking tiny blood vessels everywhere they go, and invoking a stress response as the body fights to rid itself of them.

The low-carb high-fat/high-fat-low carb polarity is just commercial spam to drive traffic to willing commercial whores. 

Ultimately, polarity among the people only serves the corporate interests to distract from the real enemy, which is criminal industrial pollution of the food supply, and the criminally fraudulent services doled out in the guise of health care.
Absolutely. I tend to easily shed body fat by simply avoiding starch and ending up with much better metabolism and wellbeing.

Yes, it's truly insane to rely on the services of so-called "health care" after all of it's failures and obvious corporate control. My grandfather was making an awesome recovery from lung cancer by eating very clean amongst other Peaty things. His energy levels were great, he was vibrant and strong...until my aunt convinced him to seek care from his doctor. Doc told him chemotherapy was the way to go, so he underwent chemo...my grandpa died barely 3 weeks later. Fuck those criminals and their "health care". It's absolutely imperative that everyone gets educated on human biology and take their health into their own hands.
#19
I think that what Peat advises about the gut is terrible and that's why it doesn't work for a lot of people. Too much fructose will lead to endotoxemia, fibers don't. A lot of people (like me) can't tolerate fibers at all because of extreme dysbiosis, but it becomes a vicious cycle leading to more and more inflammation.

I think that the high fat thing is crap. Fat leads to more endotoxin absorption into the gut.
#20
(11-20-2016, 02:03 PM)Arborescence Wrote: I think that what Peat advises about the gut is terrible and that's why it doesn't work for a lot of people. Too much fructose will lead to endotoxemia, fibers don't. A lot of people (like me) can't tolerate fibers at all because of extreme dysbiosis, but it becomes a vicious cycle leading to more and more inflammation.

I think that the high fat thing is crap. Fat leads to more endotoxin absorption into the gut.

I think that digestion can be optimized by gradually ramping up caffeine intake, throughout the day, from low water sources like concentrated coffee or espresso. I think that adding caffeine pills to regular coffee can work as well, although caffeine pills are more likely to raise my stress hormones than the same amount of caffeine from coffee. I think that increased stress hormones from coffee can largely be mitigated with activated charcoal, while ensuring adequate caloric intake. I have found that salt, niacinamide, topical vitamin E, aspirin, pregnenolone, and small amounts of dhea also help in countering side effects from caffeine. My digestion tends to become optimized once I can tolerate around 2000mg of caffeine in a day without any stress response and without needing other supplements. I think that antibiotics may be another viable approach, but are unlikely to create a permanent effect unless other factors are changed simultaneously. In my experience with antibiotics, I believe they work by exterminating the bacteria so that much less endotoxin is produced during digestion. However, I think that the health of the liver is the main determinant of metabolic rate. I think that when toxins are built up in the liver the metabolic rate decreases, and only by getting the toxins out can digestion and metabolism be fully restored. Caffeine is the best substance I know of for removing toxins from the liver.

Further, I think that with a weak digestive tract and low body temperature fruit and normal juice contain too much fiber and water respectively to work well as carbohydrate sources. I think that honey, concentrated juice(possibly diluting with regular juice can make it easier to digest), real fresh squeezed orange juice, and refined starches like white rice work better in this situation.

I think that as metabolism improves other refined starches like white flour can help to increase calories and metabolism. And, that sodas may become tolerable before most fruit juices.

I think that with a good functioning metabolism, water is less of a problem and it may be optimal to obtain the majority of carbohydrates from non-starch sources, while the fiber in fruit is unlikely to pose any problem. In my experience, I believe that concentrated juice is one of the best carbohydrate sources if you can digest it.

I agree that fat can be difficult to digest with weak digestion, and I have typically had the most success limiting fat in favor of protein sources like greek yogurt and cottage cheese, or lower fat meats, when my digestion has been impaired.
"The true method of knowledge is experiment." -William Blake
  


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